1 Hand, Dual Wield.

Blocking is for little girls and old ladies.

Dual-wield those daggers, baby! Coupled with Elemental Fury my Daedric Daggers and Swords lead to some intense damage output. Blocking isn't even necessarry, pretty much everything dies before they can even reach me.

I play a sneaky thief who relies on a bow for the most part, but when I have to throw down, it's with an Elven battleaxe.

Actually, it does. Not only are they slower when striking, they also cripple your movement to a large degree when striking. Much more so than when using one-handed weapon strikes.


This is an argument for, "If you svck, it might be easier for you to land a blow with a two-handed weapon as opposed to a one-handed weapon."


Yes, Block Runner works with two-handed weapons. So what? It just means that you can do something worse than someone who's using a one-handed weapon + shield. To me, the point of Block Runner is to have block up at all times because you can't always avoid enemy attacks (Mostly due to areas you're fighting in such as cramped dungeons with little space to move or difficult to maneuver). When you block a strike with a shield, it is far more effective. When you dodge an enemy attack via Quick Reflexes with sword and board, you can land more hits and when the damage gap isn't much between a one-handed weapon and a two-handed weapon, it means you're doing more DPS.

Furthermore, with a one-handed weapon and shield you can resume blocking far quicker so Quick Reflexes kicks in when it needs to kick in. The better movement speed while striking with one-handed weapons and the quickness to resume blocking helps your footwork tremendously when compared to using a two-handed weapon with similar technique.


Lower level enemies are one shotted by mere one-handed strikes, sprinting if need be, and far quicker too. If the damage gap was actually significant, this would be somewhat of a positive for two-handed weapons. Since it's not, well, it's not much of a distinction/advantage.


Well, if we're going to go that route, technically you never ever need to block then. Ever. In which case dual-wielding is the better choice, by far.


I doubt that's intentional behavior and in my experience with it, it's far from consistent behavior. (That means that it's very difficult and inconvenient to have it fire off every time you want it to as opposed to using it the proper way with a shield.)


Chance is the keyword. It's not consistent behavior. You know what is consistent behavior? Shield bashing. Works far better than hilt bashing with two-handed weapons (Greater reach, fires off quicker) and far better than an inconsistent stagger on power attacks. It works even better when enhanced by meditating on the word Fus.


If we're talking about the beginning of a play-through, then one-handed plus shield will work out better because it provides better defense (Which you need in the beginning if you're playing, say, Master difficulty) and greater openings to which attack an opponent (Due to swing speed and swing movement speed, better bash). If we're talking about end-game, it provides better offense than two-handed weapons short of some situations where the difference would be counted in milliseconds.

I primarily used short swords in Oblivion, and still prefer one handed swords in Skyrim.

The damage gap is significant unless you max out crafting. That is something many people will not do, if only for role playing purposes.

Reach which is nullified in a lot of cases because your movement is crippled.


That's more of a UI/Controls pro as opposed to a two-handed weapon pro.


You can do the same with a one-handed sword but with a one-handed sword you can add a shield to further enhance your blocking and bashing.


Damage which is not much different than that of a one-handed sword. If anything, a dual-wielding's perked power attack is front-loaded damage. The highest damaging power attack in the game.

I prefer one handed,but i currently use two handed

The damage gap is 72-42 = 30 damage if you don't dabble in crafting and perk up (For Daedric tier weapons). It's not that significant when you take into account the speed of a one-handed weapons and the opportunities it allows to strike and be left unharmed.

I'm going to say everything in context to beginning of the game pre 100 enchanting, alchemy, etc


Crippling movement? What does that even mean? If you need to hit an enemy and not get hit in the process, bash. After that first connect with a 2h, enemies are staggered and I'm winding up for another power attack. If they're lucky they block and...get staggered again.


Or, if an enemy is strafing or back pedalling. Archer comes to mind. Or try this, when your surrounded you can chain off power attacks without lining up with your target, becuase you can turn mid attack.


Block with a shield is more effective as far as raising it faster than a 2h can be raised. Like I've said, 20% block for a 2h is more than enough and noticeable. I don't need to block anymore damage than that. How about, approach a fight, block and bait the enemy power attack, continue with block runner and quick reflexes to land the first blow which almost always staggers.


Wait, if we take block perks we don't need to use block? I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing now.


Try it yourself, two power attacks kill all draugr in bleakfalls. 3 for restless. 4-5 for boss. Again, it's noticeably faster than 1h shield. And you can bash and block if needed.

What sad time these are when every forum user and his dog are name dropping logical fallacies around when they have no understanding of them, instead of providing a reasoned and sensible response.

First you wrongly accuse me of using an ad hominem, then you go ahead and make an ad hominem yourself in the very same post (read your last paragraph if you need a clue)...

Oh the irony! I don't know whether to laugh or cry...

Anyway, enough self indulgence. I don't want our personal differences to derail this thread any further than it already has.

I get your point about how DW has more DPS because it has faster attacks, but you refuse to accept my proposal that the AOE attack of the 2H sweep perk will push the DPS of a 2H above that of a DW user when facing multiple melee opponents. That is fine by me, and it's pointless to keep going back and forth repeating ourselves. I have already explained my reasoning clearly and have provided detailed examples of when this may occur. So lets leave it to the forum readers to decide for themselves which way is best for their own play style.

It's sad that you don't know about the fundamentals of Skyrim. It's called footwork and when striking with a two-handed weapon, your movement is severely crippled - meaning slowed down to a snail's pace - thus crippling your movement and ergo crippling your footwork. Using that same bashing tactic you can get far more success with a sword and board. Although not always viable, either because of enemy type or enemy composition, but with a two-handed weapon you'll have crippled movement as opposed to a one-handed weapon.



If an archer is moving backwards to the point where power attacking with a one-handed weapon is not viable, you either don't power attack as it's not necessary most of the time, or you shield bash him and unload all over his face. A shield bash which staggers for quite a bit longer than a hilt bash. Although even then it's not necessary as proper footwork and use of movement (Sprinting, for example) can position you correctly to [censored] smash an archer that's trying to avoid you.

So yeah, I stand by my original statement and add bad decision making to the spoken monologue.


So you're playing the waiting game further crippling the terrible DPS of a two-handed weapon in comparison to a one-handed weapon's DPS? Gotcha.


Doesn't surprise me that the point flew in over your head. You were stating as if blocking with a shield is overkill. Fine. Although if you're to look at the numbers that way, when blocking with a shield is overkill... well, blocking in general is overkill. No need to block. Dual-wielding is the better option. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing but I might as well be because I'm arguing with a wall.


I've played, on Master, from the beginning 'till ongoing (Level 81). I started with a two-handed weapon for a large majority of the game. I ended up switching permanently to a one-handed weapon and shield. I've tried and extensively tested Two-handed weapons, one-handed weapons, dual-wielding, weapon specialty perks (Bleeding, Critical Hit, Armor Penetration). I think I'm covered when it comes to experience.

I've played one character using each weapon style, and sword/shield is by far the most dynamic and fun combination to use.

Of course most people just disregard defensive skills for offensive ones (the DPS syndrome), but I totally recommend everyone to try sword/shield. Its really hard to go back to boring button mashing that is dual wield after you've mastered sword/shield.

So you're saying you're a credible source when you're going around power bashing while Quick Reflexes is applied? Lol. In any case, I didn't falsely accuse you of anything. I'm pretty sure I was correct in my accusation and furthermore I like to throw in a sense of irony every now and then. An eye for an eye and what have you. Do what you must, regardless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad-hominem


And like I said before, I disagreed with your anolysis on the situation. I thought it was akin to stating that Destruction magic is beast because it can attack all foes within a 15 feet radius (Far larger than a sweep attack's cone). I could go on and on but I've already stated numerous reasons why it just doesn't cut the mustard. Against pure one-handed, sure, but against dual-wielding? No. The key word here is that enemies can block. Block. Dual-wielding does far greater DPS to blocking foes than two-handed could ever hope to achieve, sweep perk or otherwise. Toodleoo.

Snails pace? Don't exaggerate. It doesn't matter if it's slowed down. On impact enemies are staggered more often than 1h.


Im sorry you were too dense to understand what I typed. The enemy moves suddenly before impact, I re-adjust my angle and connect with more damage and stagger than your bash. Sprinting has nothing to do with it. Several enemies move while you are in striking range or mid attack. It's a simple game mechanic really.


If I die trying to kill an enemy and I have high dps, does dps matter? Sometimes you have to go on the defensive and when you do, you can do it just as well as 1h, execpt, and I can't say this enough, you will stagger them and do more damage.


I'm saying you are over rating block...rating, as if it's needed. By block 30 all deathly power attacks from enemies can be easily bashed or avoided with a 2h just as well as a 1h. There's no need to take the hit with a block, but if you have to, 2h 20% block is fine.


I call [censored]. I think you just used the console to see which ones number were higher, while you favored 1h the whole time anyway. You're a pro, after level 30, it really boils down to preferance anyway right? The numbers are so high damage wise, the only thing that matters is what you enjoy.

Two handed is just as versitile and can dish out the pain just as well as anything.

Every single attack from a two-handed weapon that has you moving, power attack or otherwise, has your movement slowed down significantly. It's hardly exaggerating. And I've said before... IT DOES MATTER if it's slowed. I'm not going to repeat myself as to why. Yes, power attacks from two-handed weapons stagger enemies more often than power attacks from one-handed weapons. Cool story bro. Guess what? Shield bashes ALWAYS stagger enemies if applied properly AND they do it for just as long as a chance based two-handed power attack stagger.


Maybe you're just bad and I shouldn't be discussing with you how one plays efficiently with a one-handed weapon. I mean honestly, you're probably akin to all the terribads I see on Youtube standing still mashing their buttons in front of enemies and chugging down potions by the millions. I mean honestly, if you can't land a power attack on a moving humanoid (Which is what you're discussing here) with a one-handed weapon, you're bad. You're especially bad if you can't land a forward power attack with a one-handed weapon on a moving humanoid. There's no if ands or buts about it.


If you're actually getting damaged by your enemy and fear dying, then one-handed plus shield is FAR FAR FAR superior to a two-handed weapon. You cannot go defensive just as well as a one-handed + shield player when wielding a two-handed weapon. That's fact. This is ridiculous. First we go from doing straight DPS, because lets get real, a two-handed weapon holds not a single candle to a one-handed + shield combo, then you go to trying to be defensive when I say you're crippling your already weak DPS. Weak.


I'm not over rating it, I'm acknowledging it and I'm acknowledging that it's better when you use a shield... because it is. Simple. If it's a non-factor with a shield, then it's a non-factor, period. Technically you don't ever need to block, not even on Master, provided that you're properly equipped. If you don't care about taking damage, which in many cases it's not a big deal, then you're better off with dual-wielding. Two-handed weapons can block and can do damage but it does neither to a great degree. Mediocracy is what it is.


Call bull as much as you want it doesn't make it any less true. From a role playing perspective I would have liked to use a two-handed sword, which I did start out using, but I switched because it's not enjoyable from a game-play perspective and it's also much less efficient. It svcks, to put it simply. Although after a certain point, yes, you can use a toothbrush and make it viable, it still doesn't make it better or more enjoyable than the competition.


No.

Two handed power attacks stagger enemies. Bashing interupts enemies, there is a huge difference. Dealing massive damage and staggering or interupting an enemy with bash that doesn't do any damage....oh wait now you can power attack them. gg two hander is on the way to the next enemy.


The ability to connect a devestating power attack to a moving enemy during wind up of said power attack cancels out any "extereme slow down" of said power attack. See my above comments as to why a 2h power attack is better than 1h power attack or shield bash. (Hint: the 2h power attack does more damage and staggers longer)


2h weapons do more damage and actually stagger the enemy down to his knees. Your opinion does not equal fact friend. There is nothing wrong with taking block and using it on the defense if need be. I think you believe that shield bashing and staggering from a 2h power attack are the same. They aren't. Get off the console and go test them. There isn't a need to argue about it. They are two different things.


I'm saying you don't need any block % for shield and 20% is fine for 2h. I think we've covered that 2h does more damage everytime. Oh wait dps again? Who cares. Most enemies aren't going to survive the first hit, let alone get back up on their feet from being staggered.


Uh...oh yeah...cool story bro. That's your opinion. Quit trying to shove it down people's throats like its fact.

Dual wielding is terrible, because you are forced to sit in one spo when power attacking. Two handed weapons are much more powerful, yeah you move a little slower, but honestly shields are -ghey-

If going solely for melee combat I prefer axe and shield over 2-handed. Gives a more RPG feeling rather than the "mighty 2-handed all-slayer" ideal that has been visited by too many other RPG-Hack'nSlash games. Besides, shield can be fun, especially if time goes slower. For some reason I cant help but notice how a heavily staggering enemy takes far more damage from a 1-handed attack. Amen to shields (even the lowly iron shield)!!!

I'd like to echo this sentiment to JackBaldy.

Triple Echo. It seems Jack thinks he is right just cuz he responds to everything said. Wrong, just makes him look desperate.

Desperate? Stop projecting bro. I'm participating in a forum discussion... you know, it's something that sometimes occurs in forums. Imagine that, heh. Toodleoo.

If you don't want to hear what I have to say then stop replying to me? No self control, I know. Good luck with that. Peace.

No self control indeed.

Cheers

I'm guessing you that you do not understand simple mathematics. When X does 11 damage in one strike and Y does 10 damage in one strike and both strikes kill Z in one hit but Y is faster than X, Y isn't missing out on DPH but X most certainly is missing out on DPS.


Actually, a shield bash does the also brings a foe down to his knees when you meditate on the word Fus, that is a fact. Granted there might be some slight differences in the animation, but nothing significant.


Correct, but if you dismiss the superior blocking that a shield provides then I'll dismiss the inferior blocking that a two-handed weapon provides and dive into dual-wielding territory which cannot block and does not require block when shield blocking is dismissed.


I don't play on the consoles. Please try again.


Then stop replying to me if you wish to cease discussion. Simple, no?


A stagger is different to a stagger. That is new to me. X > X. Really now? You've defied the laws of mathematics.


I disagree. Especially when a one-handed power attack can connect just as accurately in the hands of a semi-competent player.


You want to argue fantasy now? Do you even know the material of what you're arguing? I take it you did no research and this information is coming from the usual place. In any case, a shield bash does stagger enemies. Lets put focus to your particular example with an enemy archer. A shield bash will always stagger someone who is wielding a bow (Regardless of whether or not they're drawing their arrow). It acts as an interrupt if the enemy is in the middle of an attack with a melee weapon. This is not an issue when dealing with an archer because... they're using their bows.

Dealing massive damage? That is what I would call an exaggeration. Dual-wielding perked up is dealing massive damage. 3 consecutive hits doing 1.5x damage for a total of 4.5x damage as opposed to a two-handers maximum of 2.25x damage. Math is your friend. Ignorance is not.

Anyhow, while you're doing a power attack that has a CHANCE based stagger (I have to put emphasis on the word chance seeing as how you're fairly inept at math), a shield bash that is quickly fired will set up a killing blow or flurry and you're done. Simple as that. I know you're not all that experienced with all of Skyrim's weapon types, but please try to keep up. Please and thank you. Toodleoo.