here we go again....so...because you played the game and didnt have any problems theres nothing wrong with it and its the greatest game everrrrrr!!! right? well im happy for you..but..go over to amazon look at the USER reviews for this game..go to any online retailer with USER reviews on their site..go into the hardware and software issues section of this forum....then tell every single one of the ppl who had problems with this game right out of the box especially the ones that cant even play the game, tell them how great the game is and how bethesda/obsidian are so perfect and dont deserve any flack..i really wanna hear what they have to say in response to you..

Clearly you never got survival to 100 because maxed out the foods you create can have durations of 10-40 seconds and heal for 6-21+ health per tick for their duration -> and needing to carry 4-6 different foods for the stacking is not exactly encumbering = Easy mode a hell of alot easier then FO3 ever was.



Those enemies already do very stunted damage once you have 25+ DT, which is not exactly that hard to get early in the game combined with foods and regening stims = no problems vs encounters that are suppose to be tough.

Personally I never found the NCR or Legion upper tier npcs to be tough to kill even in earlier levels my first Death Squad came for me around level 4 with the boyscout 3 days warning I killed them with just "That Gun" and normal rounds it was not long after that I had also angered the Legion and everytime I hit a DS trigger I was getting both the Legion and NCR death squads at the same time and still destroyed them with lower tier weapons and stacking foods and stims it just took a bit of ammo waste and at no time was I ever in danger of dieing as the stacking easily out healed the damage they did even though my DT at that time was around 5-6.

What fantasy land do you live in? A lot of corporations have knowingly put out faulty (and sometimes dangerous) products.
James Hardy – Asbestos
Big tobacco
Toyota – knowingly released cars with a faulty brake system for two or three years.

Now I am not putting Bethesda and Obsidian in the same category as them but to say a game company would not knowingly put out an unfinished product is ludicrous. I do believe this thread is about who’s to blame for FONV being unfinished. Though I am not a fan of Steam I have no real problems with it (except when it was still new it F…ed up my computer something shocking until I removed it) and it is better then some of it’s contemporaries. I’m just saying that I feel that some short sighted company directors would see it as another excuse to push for a release of an unfinished game.

And where to lay the blame I’d say ZeniMax Media they are the ones at the top of the food change.

The people that actually create the games would tweak it endlessly without ever turning out a product. The people that sell the games would turn out flashy empty boxes if they could. Somewhere in the middle, we get a game.

To add to the point Rodus was making, Ford Pinto.

I feel the real shortcoming of NV is Quality Control. Hey, I do the same thing when modding. I'll add a feature then test it out but sometimes fail to take the next step and see how it all works together. Or what happens if I try and do something in an unconventional way. But I don't charge anything for my mods and I warn folks if I think there could be a problem or things don't work exactly right yet. So many quests just fail.

They needed to get it out for the holiday season. Bugs or no bugs, it must ship. A bean counter somewhere screamed this with all his/her wrath.
They knew the bugs were there. Any competent software house tracks their bugs and classifies them by severity.
They put profit before quality.
"Complainers" and "whiners" were again demonized. How dare they demand something they paid for work?!
The fans forgave the company, like they have so many times before (any MMO release for example).
They'll do it again if the hard deadline of Black Friday is anywhere near a release date, or if they run out of budget and need the sales to help stave off the board of directors, CEO, or any other bean counter. They might do it just to get quarterly results up.

The title question was posed in a non-neutral way. The question should have been "Has Bethesda taken too much flack, or not enough?"

enough said

Fun fact: all games ship with known bugs. *All*. Anyone who works in the game industry will tell you this. Anyone who's ever worked in QA will tell you this. There are always more bugs and there is never, EVER enough time to fix everything before the deadline. Blizzard ships with bugs. Rockstar ships with bugs.

You are right a balance needs to be made. But I’m not seeing it and ZeniMax is not the worst offender. It takes years of good products to get a good reputation, it takes only one bad product to ruin a good reputation and losing a good reputation affects the bottom line. You think company exsects would have learnt that but they haven’t. The unfinished FONV has not ruined Bethesda’s reputation but it has taken a hit. The new hit to Bethesda’s reputation is the DLC deal with Microsoft (X box), is the money they are getting from Microsoft worth the loss of reputation with the other platform users?



You could not be any more right.

Our money doesn't ship with bugs...

Rule 1 of commerce: People will pay for a good product. Rule 2 of commerce: People's goodwill only lasts so long.

No, Bethesda hasn't taken enough flak.

The only reason I bought NV was because of the Obsidian angle on the sell. Oblivion and Fallout 3 are franchise killers for me...I couldn't give a damn about Skyrim and haven't bothered to see the video. This new Bethesda has to a unclear point obviously taken an approach to game making which is about making a profit on the creative credit and brilliance of an established franchise and exploiting them until the money stops falling out. Sure their games have strong points, but they lack soul and creative enterprise...and even though NV was flawed, personally it was still more satisfying and better thought out than F3.

In fact, I know a few people who gave NV a shot because of the Obsidian angle...and even when I bought NV the sales guy said to me, "It might actually be good because Obsidian -some of the guys behind the original fallout games- are behind it".

NV just needed more time in the works to smooth out the kinks, I think in retrospect.

i agree. i liked FO3/ i like FONV better. that is the way it should be.

What would you want instead? Level scaling? We know how that worked out.

theres a huge difference between bugs and unplayable..

LOL @ comparing a buggy video game to death. :shakehead:

This isn't even close to the same thing. Any company that would consistently release actual broken games would not be in business long.

FO:NV is not broken.

Actually something closer to Morrowind where the area were hard leveled but the leveling was increased radially so you could go any damn direction you wanted and as long as you did stuff (ANY STUFF -> killing, quests, exploration, ...) your level easily kept up with the level increases of your surroundings and you were free to go as you wished and do as you wished, I even liked that a few Dungeons out leveled the areas that they resided in but most were leveled in the areas range so you could rampage about as you desired with only a few exceptions.

Not this traditional Linear RPG Point A -> through to -> Point E with very little delineation I hope this way of designing RPG's dies as it completely kills replayability to have to go the same general direction every time you play and the only way of doing anything different is to abuse the system like I mentioned above by stacking effects to the point of obscenity to try and go pathing through areas that out level you 5 feet from where you started playing the game.

I want to be able to go any direction I chose and have enough content so that I do not instantly run into creatures 10 levels higher then myself and get the feeling of being artificially confined (the annoying invis walls do not help with this)
.

Its a balance sure but not an impossible one and surely not an unreasonable desire for an open world game to have at least some level of exploratory freedom, even if you do not want to tag the game a sandbox game it was built within a sandbox games engine and some level of consideration to this effect should have been taken.

in your opinion..

No, in fact. It launches, and is playable. Every game ships with bugs.

Lets drop the hyperbolic comments about how catastrophically broken New Vegas is, it is not.

The game isn't broken.
If it is, then please explain how.

Too much flack you ask? No, not at all. Fallout NV has all the issues of Fallout 3. Same engine, few to no noticable fixes. Possibly more in fact. Let me count the ways;

- Random dumping out the game to desktop, rather often.
- Getting stuck in the terrain.
- Falling through the ground (if it weren't another game I'd say to Oblivion).
- only solution for the 2 points above is to catch yourself (if falling) with the console command tcl for which (new to FONV) you are penalized by loosing achievements until you exit the game and reload it, a stroke of genius boys.
- They promote mods using the G.E.C.K. but, they hammer us with issues regarding ArchiveInvalidation.txt and large obnoxious red diamonds with exclamation marks, I just want to play. Don't create new issues. When a method was created to get around this by loading a fix of sorts... They, Bethesda/Obsidian, worked it to break it. Why is this not a simple thing to disable? For what reason?
- Shooting enemies can actually drive the enemy through the ground and so loose the option to loot the corpse.
- Player movement speed is excruciatingly slow without cheating somehow, I want to complete the game within my lifetime. Playtime should exclude travel time in games when they are being calculated. Its more realistic. The game reminds me of a LotR movie, way too much time spent walking and doing nothing.

These are just the big issues that come to mind and I have to admit, the game would be great if it just worked. As it is, the game can just be painful. We, like fools, pay money for that. Why? Because we like the concept of the game or we are nostalgic because we remember Fallout 1 and 2. Perhaps both.

I say the game is made by them or their subcontractor, whatever. The flack... Take it on the chin and man up. Bethesda would have no problem taking high praise, which I'd also be willing to give if there weren't so many serious problems.

Theres my nickel's worth. Love it or hate it.

when you cant play a game for constant or perpetual freezing its broken...

Exactly. I'm not sure how the thread continued much past this post. Although not every bug can be attributed to Bethesda, the fact that there are TOO many is directly related to the timeline & the testing afterwards.


Correct. That was a sales figure. Expense against those sales would include paying the design teams, the QA teams, marketing, occupational expenses, box creation, distribution and retailer percentage, patch creation, licensing arrangements with 3rd party distributors (Microsoft & Sony), professional fees (legal/accounting) and more. Whatever is leftover after all of these significant expenses is what is considered the profit.


Unfortunate, but true. Example:

A new car built by a company leaves somewhere traveling at 100km per hour. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should they initiate a recall?

Well - Take the number of vehicles in the field, (A), multiply by the probable rate of failure, (B), multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, (C).

A x B x C = X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, they don't do one.

You're joking, right? Seriously, right? No food gives 21 health per tick. Not even Brahmin Wellington does.Even Stimpaks with max medicine only give around fifteen for like eight seconds.

Superstims give you more, but they only give it to you for three seconds and have that debuff effect.

And even if everything you said was true, I'd still argue that it's only just as easy as FO3, considering that at least in NV the food has weight and you can't spam healing items like you could in FO3, due to the heal-over-time mechanic.

Go on. Walk into the quarry with your regenerating food and whatever armor you want. Don't shoot anything, just see how long you last.



What are you talking about? Ranger vets typically carry AMRs or ranger sequoias or brush carbines, all of which will handily overpower any amount of DT possible without cheats. Legion vets will typically carry things like 12.7mm SMGs and chainsaws, which will also overpower any reasonable amount of DT. With the new patch, the occasional fiend with a plasgun is also dangerous, considering the plasgun's buffed damage and -2 DT from standard MFCs.

Deathclaws have enough damage to overpower any amount of DT and regen possible, and Murder wasps have extremely powerful poison that, due to the game's mechanics, ignores DT. Ditto giant radscorps.

Furthermore, how are you supposed to get 25+ DT in the early game? That's as much as a fully repaired suit of T-51b here. Even if you take both toughness perks and shell out for the implant, you've got less then ten, and by the time you could actually do all that you're well into the midgame. You could get to around 26ish if you shell out thousands of caps for a suit of reinforced CA2 from the gun runners and a helmet, but that's not exactly something you can conveniently do in the early game, and 26 DT won't save you from very many high end baddies.



Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I don't believe this at all. Legion assassin teams have large amounts of health and typically have at least one hunting rifle. NCR strike teams are even worse. I'm fairly certain that it's impossible to consistently beat them in hardcoe with only low level weapons and 5-6 DT.



Eh? AII works fine. I just turned it on in FOMM and away I went. :\

Ah.
Well then.
Here's how you should've written it: "For some people it is broken because of constant freezing." :goodjob:

Yay Fight Club!

Let's not forget that some people need to upgrade their Captain Caveman PCs. :brokencomputer:

Not to mention having proper drivers, being clean of viruses/malware, turning off their pr0n torrents...

:thumbsup: