I just feel that if this trend of skimming down content and becoming too simple (for example subtracting lore and deleting features that embody TES), then the franchise will become a ghost of what it was. This not only applies to TES, but to every game out there. Sometimes (not all the time and not with all games, but frequently enough to cause concern), I feel that gaming genres have blurred and have become simplistic and generic. What makes an RPG different from a FPS these days? (RHETORICAL thanks haha) I don't want my hand held too much, and I want to be able to distinguish one title from another. I just would like a balance between streamlining for widespread success (which should be happening and has been done with Skyrim) and also maintaining those little features that may not adhere to the universal gaming rules of raking in the cash, but just give some fan service to those who miss the substance of older TES games. Just my opinion of course

What makes an RPG different from a FPS these days

I want to be able to distinguish one title from another.

'' I can reccomend Mount and Blade as one of the best true indie games with RPG elements in years. ''

I find this hilarious...

I love M&B but it in no way has the depth of Skyrim. It's RPG elements are much simpler than those of Skyrim! It is a small but easy to get into game. There isn't a single moment where you have to think ahead when it comes to your character progression. Just spend your points as you see fit. Where as Skyrim atleast makes you think for a few seconds what perks to pick as you might want to save some points for later.

I don't think Bethesda has sold out. I think some of you are like those apple-junkies. You want to be the underdog, because you think it is cool And now that Skyrim has been recognized as not just the RPG of the year but also the Game of the year, you suddenly want nothing to do with it because it just isnt cool anymore. Well, go ahead, I'll be playing Skyrim because I think it is awesome, just like Morrowind before it.

The problem here is that everyone has a different definition of the things that "embody TES", apparently for some people it was the ability to fly across the sky at warp speed, break their games, and level up by casting crappy spells in a room. Not everyone agrees with that assessment, and those that don't obviously aren't going to accept your premise that Skyrim is dumbed down or stripped of content, especially when there is also content added that some people who played the old games LIKE, even though it happens to apparently be content you don't care about.



I dunno, RPG is more malleable category than FPS is anyway, and always has been.



Are you having trouble distinguishing Skyrim from something else?

'' I can reccomend Mount and Blade as one of the best true indie games with RPG elements in years. ''

I find this hilarious...

I love M&B but it in no way has the depth of Skyrim. It's RPG elements are much simpler than those of Skyrim! It is a small but easy to get into game. There isn't a single moment where you have to think ahead when it comes to your character progression. Just spend your points as you see fit. Where as Skyrim atleast makes you think for a few seconds what perks to pick as you might want to save some points for later.

I don't think Bethesda has sold out. I think some of you are like those apple-junkies. You want to be the underdog, because you think it is cool And now that Skyrim has been recognized as not just the RPG of the year but also the Game of the year, you suddenly want nothing to do with it because it just isnt cool anymore. Well, go ahead, I'll be playing Skyrim because I think it is awesome, just like Morrowind before it.

Read my posts before you "find something hilarious" that you didn't even bother comprehending.

I mentioned it offhand as a good indie game with RPG elements, because if people want to play the underdog that's what they should be supporting, rather than asking Bethesda to cater to their niche-y desires. If you actually paid attention to my post Einstein, you'd see that in no way was I using it as a direct comparison to Skyrim.

I find this hilarious because of how little you seemed to have read my posts, then turned around and accused me of argueing the opposite point of what i actually was... As an asside, it's not exactly polite to be using 'Einstein' in a derogitory manner, either to him or to Ronnet.

Yes that is very true. I understand it'd be hard for Bethesda to cater for everybody, impossible even. I just crave a balance which I feel is being tipped in the opposite direction to what I'd like

I'm not sure how others feel, but I can't help but feel that The Elder Scrolls franchise has sold out with the release of Skyrim. I use the term 'sold out' to mean that rather than doing their utmost to cater to loyal fans who've been following this franchise for years, Bethesda has dumbed down the gameplay and content to make the game accessible to mindless sheeple who just want to follow the latest fad.

Maybe I just feel more strongly than others since I know multiple people who have played Skyrim as their first TES game and all of a sudden think they own the franchise and speak condescendingly. The very same people would have looked upon any TES game, the genre it represents and RPG gaming as a whole with contempt in the past. All of a sudden 'nerdy' fantasy RPG games with extensive lore reminiscent of LOTR is cool.

I am far from a lifelong TES fan, and I haven't played the first two games in the series. I stumbled upon Oblivion in mid 2008 and I scoured interstate for Morrowind, both of which I loved dearly. I would check the internet and Bethesda forums regularly for news of a fifth Elder Scrolls game, and once Skyrim was announced I went straight to preorder the game. I waited three years for Skyrim, and nine months with it preordered anxiously awaiting the 11/11/11. It gets on my nerves that TES V: Skyrim seems to have lost its roots to cater for these new 'fans'. The leveling system has been skimmed down, the variety of weaponry, skills, and the depth of magick customization have all been streamlined. I admit it's simplified and streamlining can be good, but at what expense?

Please note that I'm very glad that TES franchise is finally garnering the attention it deserves and is meeting success. A part of me still can't shake the negative feeling I am harboring towards these recently emerging Skyrim fans. I'd also like to state that I believe art forms and all types of media such as games, books, movies, etc. should be embraced by all. This feeling may just be irrational but I'm just curious as to who else feels that way.

To point out the mildly obvious (although not to the OP apparently) if Beth only made the game for hardcoe long-term fans then they'd sell a fraction of the copies they have, and they wouldn't have enough money to make VI in five years time. Despite the impression you might get from the volume of their whinging, hard-core/die-hard etc gamers are a small fraction of the total, and no big studio can afford to cater mostly, never mind solely, for them. Studios HAVE to hit the mainstream if they want to make money - and that's their business - and if that means a slight over-simplification compared to a hard-core RPS, then so be it. The game is just fine for me, and I've been playing TES for a while.

You seemed to have enjoyed Morrowind and Oblivion, others might not. This time around they get a game more to their liking and you did not. C'est la vie.

This was the case with me. Morrowind and Oblivion were coma-and-drool-inducingly boring.

I'm not sure how others feel, but I can't help but feel that The Elder Scrolls franchise has sold out with the release of Skyrim. I use the term 'sold out' to mean that rather than doing their utmost to cater to loyal fans who've been following this franchise for years, Bethesda has dumbed down the gameplay and content to make the game accessible to mindless sheeple who just want to follow the latest fad.

I'm curious, you didn't enjoy Morrowind or Oblivion, but still bought Skyrim. Why?

Complain complain complain. You see, I actually enjoy Skyrim because i dont have a kajillionbillion expectations, and if the game doesnt live up to every single one, i dont complain about it and say its dumbed down.
What do you call a bunch of ES fans in a basemant?

I'm curious, you didn't enjoy Morrowind or Oblivion, but still bought Skyrim. Why?

Anyway, you and the OP have really skirted such a fine line in this thread, it is hard to know what you guys are actually trying to say. A big thread spent about how Bethesda might be 'selling out', but you both seem to like the game, can you blame me for being confused?

To point out the mildly obvious (although not to the OP apparently) if Beth only made the game for hardcoe long-term fans then they'd sell a fraction of the copies they have, and they wouldn't have enough money to make VI in five years time. Despite the impression you might get from the volume of their whinging, hard-core/die-hard etc gamers are a small fraction of the total, and no big studio can afford to cater mostly, never mind solely, for them. Studios HAVE to hit the mainstream if they want to make money - and that's their business - and if that means a slight over-simplification compared to a hard-core RPS, then so be it. The game is just fine for me, and I've been playing TES for a while.

YO, HOMESKILLETINI

ART ISN'T ABOUT PLEASING OTHERS. IT'S ABOUT EXPRESSIN YOSELF

-cue NWA-


Every gamer on the Internet seems to think that they're entitled to something that they toooooootally aren't.

Do you even work for things? Or think that everyone should do their utmost to please you in every way imaginable?

*kicks bucket over your head and steals sweetroll*

A study means nothing without the citation to the article of exactly how they came to this conclusion because a whole ton of things are involved in trying to figure this out. I dont believe science can tell us exactly how nostalgia changes our views over time because it varies by person and just finding a majority does this or that does not definitely prove that for each and ever person. So the net effect is that study is pretty meaningless to suggest as proof even though people often cite it as such.