Sorry it isn't nostalgia to me about Morrowind. After playing Morrowind, Oblivion was like playing a Spongebob game on Nintendo Wii. It was 100x more complex and the gameplay was massive and the unique items and places were phenomenal. No Fast Travel other then Silt Striders to each town and some not even the smaller places. No hand holding quest markers. I could get lost in that game for a day looking for things and getting side tracked exploring. Skyrim seems to have a bit of the Morrowind feel back. Yes it has quest markers and fast travel, but I sometimes use them and sometimes I don't.

I gave up complaining about things on these and other forums about the games. Simple fact the devs in these companies think they know what we want and don't seem to care how much we complain. They make it the way they want to and end of story. I found it to be pointless and a waste of time to complain because it just falls on deaf ears anyway.

For those people who mainly play FPS, Skyrim is a refreshing sight to them. They think Skyrim is complex and immersive, when compared to the FPS they usually play.

For those people who mainly play RPGs or TES series, Skyrim is a dumbed down game.

Your reply clearly illustrates why people say "Bethesda is trying to appeal to the COD crowd" now.

Skyrim is now at a point where mainstream FPS crowd can easily pick up and still think it's huge and complex. While the old time RPG players can still accept, barely, with discontents.

Sold out? no made some wtf design descisions? yes I don't know what their mindset is but its annoying how they handled alot of things even more so that as a Cassandra this one more or less figured that 80% of all the touted new features were novelties and the things removed effected the game exactly as I thought it would months ago.


Their are no Jobs, just 5 second no need to repeat again distractions

the Crafting system is just a bunch of menus and resembles

Which brings me to the point of Spell making being gone since Enchanting is exactly like it was since its inclusion in Arena.

ugh I could go on. no Beth didn't sell out they just made a lot of wtf descisions and garnered the attention of 10 million $ worth of revenue from unaware folks who effectively couldnt care what previous installments had. funny to because when I spoke to my relatives they remarked on some of the things taken out and they've played since Morrowind, 15 year olds notice stupidity.

I think this is interesting and I think you're hinting on something here. What was being talked about 'as sold' out' on the forum when Morrowind was relased? It surely it couldn't have been in the same proportion as it is now, not only as there are more folks playing their games to make an opinion, but also that alas Skyrim seems to be the most simplified game of them two and the furthest elderscroll game away up-to-date from the conventional role play disposition.

"Sold out".. lmao. These kind of posts are hilarious.

Is Bethesda supposed to be some kind of underground Punk rock entity?

Don't know about "sold out" but the 150 or so hours I have logged in Steam for Skyrim is far greater than the hours I played Oblivion. I would say that Bethesda has improved this time around.

Its called appealing to a larger crowd,and maybe in some twisted logic,trying to make a profit.I love laughing @ people who because they have played the game "since the beginning" that somehow they "own" the game,and it should be developed to suit their tastes and no one elses.Grow up OP

And you can't do that in Oblivion? Or Skyrim? Oh... well, that's news......

No, not really. Sellout sounds like a specific event to me, a point you can mark in time. TES has degenerated with each game, so it has always been a process to "appeal to a wider audience", as they like to put it.
However, personally, Skyrim has crossed the line for me. But that is something everyone has to decide for themselves.

Sold out? No, they've just outsold all of their previous games.

Ahh the Morrowind" Every flaw is a feature " debate.

Let's see

Fast travel that got you a little closer to where you wanted to go...maybe.
A fairly useless journal.
Combat that was less than stellar.(My first battle with a mudcrab should not be more epic than the battle with Vivec)
Crafting systems that begged to be exploited.You can make a levitate potion that lasts about a year real time.

You say sold out I say improved.

Just to throw a bit of science into the fray, for what little it might be worth around here --

The arguments over the reasons why some people prefer the older TES games are ridiculous. It's just one big false dichotomy, suggesting that people are simply making arguments from nostalgia rather than a genuine appreciation for older gameplay elements. The reality is that it's most often probably both.

Studies have shown overwhelmingly that there's a real effect of nostalgia with respect to time. As an anecdotal example, there's a reason you meet so many from older generations who'll tell you how rosy this or that was when they were younger. Conversely, you'll very rarely hear from the same demographic that "gosh, political debates are so much friendlier nowadays" or "they sure don't make 'em like they used to -- they've really improved through the years." When you follow these people for 20+ years, as some studies have done, and then measure the changes in their opinions while controlling for environmental changes, you'll find that nostalgia really does give one a rosier perspective on the past. In this way, our memories of experiences aren't so much recalled as they are actively constructed.

Before people come out of the digital woodwork to claim that this doesn't apply to them, let me tell you that yes, it does, and you can deny it all the way to page 30.

But since there are, of course, actual changes in gameplay with respect to time as well, in this case, we can't disentangle the reasons for our preferences and attribute greater weight to one or the other. It's good enough that we recognize that our preferences are a function of both of these things.

On that note, our time is better spent arguing over the merits of actual gameplay elements themselves and not peoples' motivations for bringing them up.

I loathe FPS games. I can appreciate that there are virtues to the genre, but they don't appeal to me. In all honesty, I hate the first person perspective and I could count the number of games I enjoy from that angle on one hand.

At nine, I fell in love with Final Fantasy VII (hey, I was nine). Not all of the games I enjoy focus on plot but good story, characters and/or lore can greatly amplify my ennjoyment of any entertainment media.

I adore Skyrim. I wouldn't say it's perfect, but I've had an amazing time delving into the country and its history.

Sold out, no.

It has some horrid design decisions, yes.

I also think it was rushed for the special 11-11-11 release date.

Old news, Oblivion was the sell out game. Bad voice acting plus consolitus. Skyrim is actually a step up from that a bit.

I like the UI in Skyrim much better than Oblivion and Morrowind. I've played every Bethesda game since Daggerfall and I have to say Skyrim is a lot easier to play than the others, which had way too much clicking.

Also, I didnt like being constrained to a class.

I'm so glad to hear this. I was beginning to think I was the only one who liked Skyrim's UI better than Oblivion's.

1ST off I'm sorry that I'm not smart enough or good enough to play YOUR game !!!!

2ND Maybe they should charge Loyal fans like you 2 or 3 times as much for the game and you wouldn't need the rest of us !!!!
and maybe the ES series would still get the attention it deserves....

Question to OP did you get treated this way when you started playing oblivion by the fans of the first two games ????

Honestly, from what I've seen over the years, "cater to loyal fans" is frequently a recipe for disaster.


As opposed to the multiple people who started with (Daggerfall/Morrowind/etc) as their first TES game and think they own the franchise and speak condescendingly.

None of the players own the franchise. Or deserve anything for being "loyal".



(For the record, my first TES game was Morrowind. Don't own it, though... it was borrowed from a friend. Haven't really felt the need to get my own copy over the years. )

People have no brains if they think there a bigger fan just cuz they played first

Don't worry. We felt that way about you Oblivion guys too.

The cycle continues.

Percisely. If the game doesn't cater to you like the last game, it's "sold out".

The whole "loyal fan-base" vs "new fans" is the same thing as all the WoW players saying it's the first and greatest MMO. Those of us who played MMO's long before WoW was on the lips of anyone at Blizzard, know how silly that is to say.

So, in response they spew the "nostalgia" excuses. Or, I played that game not too long ago and it was horrible.

The problem with saying "nostalgia" is you assume we are remembering it for certain reasons.
If you tried playing one of those older games today, you'd be dealing with your own form of nostalgia - all the newer games you've been playing in the last few years. They're more exciting, have better graphics; things just look better today; there's voice-overs; and other things to make it easier; and run better with computers of this day and age, not 10 plus year old computers.

Uldred

Minus the missing journal system, you can play Skyrim excatly like Morrowind if you don't take too many quests at once....and just turn off your HUD.

I consider the lack of restriction you are talking about to be one of the deepest flaws in the game, i.e. you did not have to play it all at to become powerful.

A study means nothing without the citation to the article of exactly how they came to this conclusion because a whole ton of things are involved in trying to figure this out. I dont believe science can tell us exactly how nostalgia changes our views over time because it varies by person and just finding a majority does this or that does not definitely prove that for each and ever person. So the net effect is that study is pretty meaningless to suggest as proof even though people often cite it as such.