You mean like the way you jump on people for having a negative opinion and telling them to get out?
Also, talking about a game from 2006 or older will get what done, exactly?

Oblivion isn't being updated and isn't getting DLC... but there is a game that is... wonder what it's called...

Do I need to pull the "if you like it so much, why aren't you playing it right now" angle?

Road goes both ways Nell, and currently your road is gone far off topic.

You can pull that card, but it makes no sense. I don't spend 24/7 playing Skyrim...

However, when I am done playing it, or winding down for the night, I like to check forums and talk with people who share similar interests, thus I sign up for message boards for many different things I'm interested in to discuss those things with like minded people, because my friends aren't always into the same things that I am, so I can't always talk about that stuff with friends.

And I've expressed many times - my gripe isn't with people who have a negative view of Skyrim or TES:O (hell, I have a negative view of TES:O), it's with the way those negative opinions are expressed.

Expressing them as globally universal truths (which they are not) is annoying, when I'm constantly bombarded with "NOT A REAL RPG!! NO RPG MECHANICS!!!"

Well guess what? I think it has superior RPG mechanics, so stop claiming your opinion to be the truth. Express what you dislike and why, and offer an alternative, and be done with it.

Using insulting terms like "dumbed down", "hand holding" or "casuals" is very insulting to the people who do like the mechanics or design, by stating that they are of inferior gaming and intellect for liking this "dumb" game.

And most of all, having the attitude of a victim with an entitlement complex - it really is as simple as don't like it, don't play it. Instead, people come on here with an arrogance that Bethesda / ZeniMax should be designing games specifically for them, and when they don't, they become offended and insulted. There are other games out there to play, if you don't like what is released by a company, pass on it and play something else.

Also - if you hate Skyrim so much why do you care about DLC? Skyrim still isn't going to satisfy you, so why do you care what they do with DLC?

Also - you're not exactly talking about DLC in the Skyrim forums, you're still [censored]ing about stuff that's over and done with and can't be changed at this point anyways.

My beef isn't with negative opinions, it's with the blatant disregard of other people, and constant disrespect that I have beef with.

You're still off topic.

Either PM so you can get some validation with a random internet user or just drop it. People have different opinions, they don't need to adhere to your rules of where they should be, how they should talk or what they should talk about anymore than you have to adhere to their's.

This has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

They don't in the real world either, but you get much better response from people when you show them respect, instead of just disregarding them and attempting to impose yourself upon them.

Again you're off topic.

PM if you have to find some form of validation with a random internet user or drop it.

How would 1st person make it repetitive?
Also, if the game was to be made in 1st person, then 3rd person is out of the option.
Reason for that is because players in 1st person put themselves at great handicap, and that's a big no.

You really are ridiculous aren't you. It is alright to like a game and be able to see its flaws. It's just some people can't take a single word against it. Oh skyrim's perfect, nothing whatsoever needs changing in it. It really is pathetic of you trying to dictate who is allowed to come on these forums. I think it's funny that because I see things wrong in agame I hate it and don't deserve to be in the forums? Seriously you just seem to flame everyone wherever you go. What criticism have I given that isn't constructive??? Don't bother replying, we really are meant to be staying on topic.

Well said. Back on topic, I think it is pointless to wish for major game mechanic changes in the MMO as things like first person just arent going to happen. The only way an ES online would be in first person is that the actual TES series was made online, which I doubt very much will happen.

As I said earlier (I think), just because First Person MMORPGs have been done in the past doesn't mean that the mechanic in general is a good idea overall or with current tech.

First person perspective and real time combat are two completely different things that are not bound together.

From what I've read there are TES players who are wishing for real time combat similar to MW/OB/SK, but this is probably not something you'll get, and if you did get it, you may not want it any longer because of the problems it will cause.

As for first person perspective, that's common enough in MMORPGs and just comes down to player choice. It's people who play in third person who think there's a visual disadvantage to playing in first, but there's no real disadvantage. In a situation where you need to see around you, you can zoom out for a quick look. The great advantage for people who play in first person is minimizing lag in certain resource hungry situations like raiding.

Any MMORPG that releases in 2013 without the simple feature of a player being able to choose their perspective would appear to be a backward product to me. But there are a small handful of features that I would expect in MMORPGs now, and I tend to dismiss any releases that don't have them as not A grade products. Considering I don't have the time to play every new game that comes onto the market, I need some way to distinguish what to play and what not to. Perspective is just one of the basics, for me.

You again don't pay attention.

I have not complained about people who find flaws in Skyrim. I have complained about the disrespectful attitude people portray on these forums, of belittling those that do like Skyrim and TES:O for what they are, and don't find the same faults.

The obvious answer is that they should have said that first person is a wildly unpopular perspective in the MMO scene. It's not impossible, we all know that. It's just not the best for a myriad of reasons. The last successful MMO with a FPP was EQ1. The majority of the reason why that game was successful is because it was the first mainstream 3D world MMO. I'm sure someone here will dispute that with me, but I remind you, I said mainstream. FPP offers even less sight than in real life. It's actually quite less immersive if you were to ask me.

If you want to talk about something they said was impossible to do with what we as the players would expect, we can talk about housing. Now that statement that they made was an absolute lie. I'd rather have a weak housing system than no housing system in ES games.

The reason we are so extreme in our responses to people being super negative is that there are people who claim they are so disappointed that they would never touch this game, but they still post here. They claim the whole series will be ruined now but continue to post. An user like Reymas is so dramatic in his responses to the first announcement of the game and anything involved with it even a moderator mocked him and his "puking" all over everything. I have concerns about the game, check my post history here. I just wait for information before making an uninformed statement. As another user stated, I join a forum to look for like minded people. Not people who complain about every leak, every picture, every video of the game but continue to hang around. It is unproductive to everyone.

And while sending a PM would be nice, why didn't you PM the two of them to get back on topic?

On topic for me, my question is, if they offer the ability to zoom in completely but you can't see your hands and weapon in front of you, is that acceptable? Because they offer that in most MMORPGs.

The housing thing is the weakest of the weak justifications they have come up with. I can't speak for EQ housing, I only recently returned and left before housing was available, but I can say that SWG had incredible housing. Not just housing, but player built cities, and I'm sure they are not the only MMO to do it. It was a very successful design, and it's a shame that TES:O won't even be attempting a housing system.

Who knows, perhaps they are holding it off for an expansion.

Which is something else that worries me - they have already admitted to purposefully holding back content for expansions, I.E.: we know that Winterhold won't be in the game, so they can add it in later as an expansion.

I don't think I like this mentality of purposefully holding back content so that they can add it in to an expansion later.


^ This, exactly this. It's not people having concerns that bother me - I have concerns about TES:O, and I also find faults and flaws in Skyrim. It's people who are so dramatic and extreme in their responses, people who have to impose their hatred of the game at every turn, people who are so upset about the game that they refuse to acknowledge that to many people, perhaps it was a preferred design choice and impose their opinion as a world truth, instead of just their opinion or preference, that bother me. And as you said, the people who are so disgusted by the choices, yet continue to post on a forum for a product that they have declared they will not support.

If they put all of Tamriel into the base game......what would they do for expansions?

Sea based combat, new major cities to take over, more dungeons and caves throughout the world. For real though, I thought they said that some areas will be blocked off for expansions.

I guess if they are gonna do that, don't put in part of a territory.

Don't give me half of Skyrim, just to give me the other half later. Just leave Skyrim out, and give me a full Morrowind, or Cyrodiil, or Valenwood, or Elswyr.

If I am going to buy an expansion, I'd rather buy an expansion that is "SKYRIM!" or "VALENWOOD!" than "College of Winterhold..."

Well its just winterhold hold and the college, not half of skyrim. Also they will probably add areas for each of the three factions per expansion, not having an entire province would exclude some of the major races and piss people off more.

Eh, I highly doubt Winterhold and the college are the only parts of Skyrim they are holding out.

As is, I think Windhelm is the only confirmed location in Skyrim, no? As far as I know, there's no Rift, Faulkreath, Markarth, Whiterun, Throat of the World, Solitude, etc...

Just like Morrowind is only going to have Ebonheart, and it sounds like Cyrodiil is really only going to have the Imperial City.

Where did you hear Morrowind was only going to have Ebonheart? some of the screens from GI are clearly from Mournhold.

Also you need some of those other skyrim holds to get to Windhelm.

Furthermore they have confirmed that most, if not all, of Cyrodiil is in the game, and that it is dotted with forts, mines, farms, castles, and other capturable areas.

I forgot about Mournhold. You are correct.

Have they confirmed that much of Cyrodiil is in the game?

As far as what is giving me those ideas, it's the fact that only specific towns and areas were named in so far as being "in". As far as needing those other holds to get to Windhelm, I really wouldn't expect it. If they want to make you go directly to Windhelm, they will find a way. That's basically how Warhammer Online did it, and a lot of what I am hearing in regards to TES:O reminds me of WAR, up to and including taking vets from DAoC to design it.

The 19 page Game Informer mag article specificlly says "the majoirty of the central provience of Cyrodiil is the battleground fo endgame PVP"

This article, a seperate one from the one I mentioned above, even says
http://www.gameinformer.com/games/the_elder_scrolls_online/b/pc/archive/2012/05/11/what-elder-scrolls-online-offers-skyrim-fans-mmo-players.aspx

Non-instanced PvP warfare. Remember the good old days of open warfare in the Hillsbrad Foothills as huge mobs of players fought over Tarren Mill and Southshore? Expand that to the entire province of Cyrodiil. Take out the server-crashing lag, since the engine can handle up to 200 players onscreen and Zenimax Online has still-under-wraps plans to divert excess population. Forget about lowbie ganking, since everyone’s stats are automatically boosted to level-cap status in Cyrodiil. Oh, and there are things to fight over besides murdering helpless questgivers. Like, for instance, keeps whose walls you can bash down with trebuchets.

Just about, if not, all of of Cyrodiil is in the game.

also kvatch has been confirmed to be in

People need to understand that MMORPGs and single player RPGs are two very different beasts. Yes, Darkfall Online had first person twitch-based for ranged combat and Mortal Online had first person real-time combat. However, we have to keep in mind these were niche indie MMOs created to try and appeal to a different audience from the mainstream MMO audience. That being said, AAA MMOs all basically follow the same principles: third person combat, auto-target, tool bar, class system, level cap, etc.

I personally played Darkfall Online for quite some time and while some of the ideas were a nice change from the standard MMO formula, the game was ridiculously unbalanced in regards to the skill progression system similar to TES games, twitch-based combat all depended on ones latency, and combat degenerated into a bunny-hopping zerg fest with everyone spamming AOE spells to try and kill everyone in the area. The game is virtually impossible to play unless you started playing the day it came out and joined a strong guild with stable alliance ties. So in theory, yeah, Skyrim transformed into an MMO sounds great, but in practice it would be an absolute nightmare.

When ZeniMax Online says first and foremost they wanted to make an enjoyable game, they were being serious. If they could make a game that retained more traits of what players consider to be TES, they would. Beyond anything else though, players like balance, fair and exciting combat, and in the case of MMOs team-oriented builds that lead to dynamic group makeups. AAA MMOs are the way they are today because they work. That being said, ESO is not just another "WoW Clone" and is taking steps to separate itself from the norm by making combat more dynamic, having a dynamic 3-faction conflict, a lesser focus on the holy trinity, and overall an experience that feels like TES, but within an MMO space.

I think it's just best if everyone takes a step back and truly consider what a TES game actually is. Regardless of whatever your first TES game, whether it was Arena or Skyrim, the core factor that makes a TES game is being able to go wherever you want and do whatever you want. This is the fundamental core of the franchise and ESO will retain that feature just as any previous TES game has. BGS has done a fantastic job of creating a single player TES experience everyone has grown to love and cherish for the past 18 years. Now lets give ZeniMax their chance to make the online TES experience players have been asking for. It will be different, but just because of that doesn't mean it will be any lesser than the other games. Give it a chance and let them release it first before you judge.