"It's impossible to do first-person direct-action combat

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 1:26 am

They serious?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z29J14XYUUY


And yes, we are talking 1995-1996 here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N5VtGVmvxU

I guess this is no different than "spears were unable to implement in Skyrim due to engine restrictions"... Yeah right.
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Sandeep Khatkar
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 3:25 pm

Meridian flopped when Ultima Online came out. Darkfall flopped when it came out. Mortal flopped when it came out.

WoW was a success. Everquest was a success. EQ2 financially was a success. Lineage 2 is still a success. Lord of the Rings Online was a success.
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Leilene Nessel
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 2:50 pm

Here you go, if the game can be zoomed in like this, will that make it better for you guys/gals?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLsP0c-DZsw
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Emmi Coolahan
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 4:47 pm

It doesn't matter what flopped and when, you miss the point. Things aren't impossible, they just need excuses.

Regards,
Eno
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Dark Mogul
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 9:08 pm

It doesn't matter what flopped and when, you miss the point. Things aren't impossible, they just need excuses.

Regards,
Eno

EDIT: And M59 is hardly dead, the combat video I posted is from 2005. You can play it today if you'd want to. http://www.meridian59.com/
I was pointing out, that regardless of the excuse, the games that came out around the same time and were not first person oriented did better. As an MMO you want lots of people to play your game and pay for it so you can continue to keep the game going, and make money. The games that offer third person as the first option, and at times only option, have done that for them much better. I am pretty sure everyone here fully understands that that was a false statement that you can not do first person.
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Skrapp Stephens
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 5:43 pm

EDIT: And M59 is hardly dead, the combat video I posted is from 2005. You can play it today if you'd want to. http://www.meridian59.com/

It might not be dead haha, but it proved my point: They want to go to PAX but don't have any money to go. Only two servers left and one is not heavily populated.
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QuinDINGDONGcey
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 7:38 pm

Well no First Person in an MMO isnt impossible, I dont think anyone was trying to say that and as Varking shows us you can even do it in WoW, so if TES:O is anything like wow then odds are you will be able to zoom in so you view things from first person, problem solved I dont see why you guys are complaining.
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Jade MacSpade
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 5:44 am

Well no First Person in an MMO isnt impossible, I dont think anyone was trying to say that and as Varking shows us you can even do it in WoW, so if TES:O is anything like wow then odds are you will be able to zoom in so you view things from first person, problem solved I dont see why you guys are complaining.
Because zooming into first person to them is unacceptable. They need to be spoonfed first person where their hands are shown. But then they will complain that content is spoon fed to them. No imagination among these "true RPers".
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Nick Tyler
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 3:26 am

I don't know why you put the title in quotation marks when that's not what they said at all. :shrug:
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Kayleigh Mcneil
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 8:21 pm

I don't understand why we keep having these threads. Every informed MMO gamer knows that it's possible, and they used that as an excuse.

It's a design choice, who cares what their excuse was? This is just as transparent as "We didn't want to." if you know what you're talking about.
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Amber Ably
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 5:13 am

They didn't want to or they couldn't, that's another option. It may be harder to make it happen in 1st and they can ask "hey mister bossman can we into first person?" "no you can't" "ok we can't"
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Darren
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 10:24 pm

I don't understand why we keep having these threads. Every informed MMO gamer knows that it's possible, and they used that as an excuse.

It's a design choice, who cares what their excuse was? This is just as transparent as "We didn't want to." if you know what you're talking about.
We keep having these threads pop up because there is a vocal group of people here with an agenda.
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AnDres MeZa
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 6:08 am

It's a design choice that appeals to more casual players who don't want to feel frustrated or at disadvantage for lacking good reflexes or a decent internet connection. Battles with a large number of actors already perform terribly in Skyrim and Oblivion, with AI grinding to a halt, lots of friendly fire and monsters behaving oddly. Paint the same scenario with hundreds of players on screen...things get far more complicated.
I'm sure it could be done, but they just opted for a safer path. The technology is there, the internet is now fast enough for that, they just don't want to take greater risks because combat mechanics can't change overnight. If didn't work or was poorly accepted, then the game would be doomed. And frankly, if they manage to implement massive PVP even with target locking and the same old hotkey mechanics, that's already a major feat. Many MMO's have promised that and failed to deliver.

I don't agree with the lack of real time combat, but that's my understanding of WHY they went with queues instead.
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evelina c
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 9:54 pm

This is why most mmos allow both perspectives. Problem solved. EQ, DAOC, LOTRO, WOW, SWTOR, and AOC all allow for both First and Third-person perspective. It has been the standard for years and there is no reason to abandon it for TESO. Especially not for TESO. I still have hope that it is possible now and we just haven't heard/seen it yet or it will be included at some point. If not it seems like a huge lapse. While TESO is a bit more direct action than the typical icon combat it doesn't seem like it is that much of a departure to make fp impossible.
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Catherine Harte
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 6:18 pm

I for one would prefer a 1st person view to see the world like in the single player games but I can play in 3rd too if the world is very detalied and beautiful.
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Dezzeh
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 6:55 am

Hey, it could have been as good as this -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU2ta1EsggE
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Marion Geneste
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 4:29 pm

Yeah I would have preferred a fp and tp option.
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anna ley
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 6:08 am

Here you go, if the game can be zoomed in like this, will that make it better for you guys/gals?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLsP0c-DZsw
I was pointing out, that regardless of the excuse, the games that came out around the same time and were not first person oriented did better. As an MMO you want lots of people to play your game and pay for it so you can continue to keep the game going, and make money. The games that offer third person as the first option, and at times only option, have done that for them much better. I am pretty sure everyone here fully understands that that was a false statement that you can not do first person.

Again you are missing the point. The problem is that the gameplay anounced for TES:O favor 3rd person as it doesn't require to aim. A lot of people find a gameplay based on a 3rd person based view to not be "TES-like" because it is less immersive than a first person view and a gameplay where you actually have to aim.
Im pretty sure TES:O is going to include FPS-view, and if I play it, I will surely use it unless Im in combat (no point in doing so since I won't have to aim). That said, I know I won't be fully satisfied, as the experience wouldn't be "complete".

So, in fact, the real concern is the hotkey-based combat they decided to use. Wich is obviously to appeal the average MMO player.
That said, TES fans aren't a small niche, Oblivion and Skyrim were big hits, and TES:O have a lot of budget too. With that in mind, you can't say that FPS based gameplay TES:O is bound to fail, since a lot of people expect that kind of gameplay from a Elder Scrolls game.
Also, games like Darkfall and Mortal were made by indie or small companies, with low workforce as well as low budget. Zenimax isn't anything like them, they have ton of money, a lot of talented people, the TES name, and they are way more effective on the marketing side as well. FPS based gameplay isn't enough to make TES:O into a commercial disaster (in fact, it may be the inverse), unless they completely change their design to go hardcoe to the max (one life, one character, and so on), wich would really affect the sales.

Because zooming into first person to them is unacceptable. They need to be spoonfed first person where their hands are shown. But then they will complain that content is spoon fed to them. No imagination among these "true RPers".
Now you are trolling. Not saying that 3rd person rp is impossible though, if I can rp with a piece of paper and a pair of dice, I can do it in 3rd person too (and already did).
1st person help though.
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sarah
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 2:54 pm

Hey, it could have been as good as this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU2ta1EsggE
Oh my, that looks absolutely horrible. Do people really want to play Backpedaling Online? :(
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Michelle Smith
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 2:48 pm




Again you are missing the point. The problem is that the gameplay anounced for TES:O favor 3rd person as it doesn't require to aim. A lot of people find a gameplay based on a 3rd person based view to not be "TES-like" because it is less immersive than a first person view and a gameplay where you actually have to aim.
Im pretty sure TES:O is going to include FPS-view, and if I play it, I will surely use it unless Im in combat (no point in doing so since I won't have to aim). That said, I know I won't be fully satisfied, as the experience wouldn't be "complete".

So, in fact, the real concern is the hotkey-based combat they decided to use. Wich is obviously to appeal the average MMO player.
That said, TES fans aren't a small niche, Oblivion and Skyrim were big hits, and TES:O have a lot of budget too. With that in mind, you can't say that FPS based gameplay TES:O is bound to fail, since a lot of people expect that kind of gameplay from a Elder Scrolls game.
Also, games like Darkfall and Mortal were made by indie or small companies, with low workforce as well as low budget. Zenimax isn't anything like them, they have ton of money, a lot of talented people, the TES name, and they are way more effective on the marketing side as well. FPS based gameplay isn't enough to make TES:O into a commercial disaster (in fact, it may be the inverse), unless they completely change their design to go hardcoe to the max (one life, one character, and so on), wich would really affect the sales.


Now you are trolling. Not saying that 3rd person rp is impossible though, if I can rp with a piece of paper and a pair of dice, I can do it in 3rd person too (and already did).
1st person help though.
All I'm saying is you either adapt to the game they are making, or find a new game. Simple.
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Thomas LEON
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 1:59 am

Oh my, that looks absolutely horrible. Do people really want to play Backpedaling Online? :(

Yeah, that looks truly terrible.
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asako
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 10:40 pm

All I'm saying is you either adapt to the game they are making, or find a new game. Simple.

Did I ever said that I wasn't going to play TES:O or that it was going to be bad ? I was just explaining why some people thought that it needed FPS-based gameplay, how it helped immersion, and that this kind of design choice wouldn't be a major threat to TES:O's sales. In fact, I plan on trying this game at least once before judging it for good.
But you are so focused on winning your argument, that you end up using the old "If you don't like it, shut up", which is ridiculous. Developpers seeks and need their players opinion. True, it may be early for some concerns, it's also true that there is a lot of complaining wich is boring.

But do you know what is even more boring than people complaining about a game ? People complaining that people complain.

PS :
And now look at me, complaining about people complaining that people complain.
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kirsty williams
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 5:26 am

Im just tired of seeing the same 3 or 4 people claiming this will not only fail, but ruin the whole series. People need to understand that games aren't developed for them specifically and that there are tons of other options. I've just never understood the point of sticking around a place you don't like or posting on a forum for a game that said person feels its destined to fail. Go find something positive to do.
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-__^
 
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Post » Mon May 14, 2012 4:21 pm

We keep having these threads pop up because there is a vocal group of people here with an agenda.

Agenda? Sorry but I laughed hard at that. What are you on about here? As far as I'm aware there are two main kinds of people here in this subforum at this time. It's pretty simple. The ones who've been with the series from the beginning are disappointed to see the franchise cheapened and streamlined. The ones who've started by playing Oblivion or Skyrim care much less and cannot fully understand the concern other group is having.

Regards,
Eno
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DarkGypsy
 
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Post » Tue May 15, 2012 3:51 am

Depends on the combat system used, 1st person simply isn't going to work. A first-person combat system that requires lock-on would be highly annoying.
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james tait
 
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