jarl balgruuf is by far the best jarl of all

I haven't seen that clip in ages. I only joined up with the imperials on my very first character.... and the rest I went with the stormcloaks... since I collected much knowledge about the situation that is occurring in Skyrim.

I really would like to know what is the history behind the hatred that Balgruuf has with Ulfric. Something must of triggered it.

Yup a typical scumbag of a Jarl that will make scumbag speech's like that when he don't realize what Ulfric is truly fighting for. He is fighting so he doesn't have to secretly worship Talos all thanks to the empire that he is supporting. Ulfric is fighting so that skyrim can be free from hands of the empire, and gain independence.

If only you can kill that bastard ... maybe add him as one of the contracts for the Dark brotherhood... now that would be something else. I can see it now having to approach his son, Nelkir performing the Black Sacrament out on his father.


I say that because Occasionally I would see someone on this board spilling out some remarks that Balgruuf is neutral and isn't on either side. Just watch and wait and the comments will return soon enough. If you have free time on your hand go search for past comments. I'm certain that you can find some.

I still find it interesting that some of you are so.... immoderate.... about pixels in a game.

Some of us are hardcoe RP'ers. We get seriously involved with the story, and thanks to the game we can act out on it.

I just wish that Skyrim had a better storyline to enjoy instead of having to most of our imaginations to cover up the crappy writing.

Hmm. I'm a hardcoe RP player. I started with AD&D in the mid-70s, dm'ing games (scenarios I wrote myself) for my daughter and her friends - you know, REAL tabletop, pencil/paper/roll the dice games. I don't find it difficult at all to RP in TES. Or in WoW for that matter. The biggest issue I have is that I want to be the DM, and that's not possible with games like these. Ah well. Into each life a little rain must fall....

I know that, I've seen them too.

Like Ulfric, I see Balgruuf as a true Nord- proud and stubborn. It's his stubbornness that won't allow him to go against his convictions like Elisif does. Same for Rikke. I admire that, I don't despise it. They're just on the wrong side.

Depending..... you really ought to use IMO or something so people new to the forum don't get the idea that there's only one right side.... and they might you know!

I don't really think Balgruuf is truly neutral, but he comes off more as a peacekeeper. He does feel more inclined towards the Empire than to Ulfric, but he still does not allow either side to gain a foothold in his territory so his people can avoid the fighting. He is also the person who suggests the temporary truce between both sides of the civil war, as well as apparently being the only person who cares that the dragons have returned. He takes care of his hold and the people living in it better than any other Jarl, and would rather focus on protecting his subjects than waging war.

Very true. Now, that might make the more militant among us see him as a wuss.... but certainly not neutral. Basically, the dragonborn brings disaster upon Balgruuf and Whiterun. Sad.

As in "wrong" side you mean YOUR side!!!
Understanding is a three-edged sword, your sword, my side, and the truth.

Edit

Balgruuf is my favorite Jarl. Ulfric isn't the worst Jarl out there, and it depends upon my character which side I choose. But there's a couple of things that really stand out about Balgruuf that make me respect him more than any other Jarl. He comes across as caring more about the people under his protection than national politics.

For instance, the very first scene in the Palace of Kings has Ulfric and Galmar discussing whether or not to INVADE Whiterun. Regardless of Balgruuf's stance (Imperial vs. Stormcloak), I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to be invaded for any reason. Even Ulfric says, "He'll come around." Perhaps so... but attempting to force Balgruuf to choose a side just brings out the Nord stubbornness in him. The Jarls are mostly independent, regardless of who is High King. So Ulfric saying "stand with me or else" is DEFINATELY going to make Balgruuf go for the "or else" part of the equation.

Balgruuf appears to be attempting neutrality. Yes, the Empire is in Whiterun, but they were already in every Skyrim city before Ulfric began his uprising. Balgruuf wants to hold to the status quo, because he knows something which alot of people here seems to miss - that war, of any kind, for any reason, hurts the common people the most. And THAT seems to be his most pressing concern - it shows in every argument in the throne room.

Balgruuf is tied as my favorite Jarl with Igrod. I think every single one of the rest of them are pretty crappy.

You mean after the Stormcloaks tried to take his city from him in a battle he was only able to win because he had the Dragonborn and the Imperial Legion on his side?

I wouldn't expect anyone to remain neutral after that.

He just wants what is best for his people. Lets be honest, a Stormcloak victory seems pretty impossible against the Imperial army AND the Thalmor. He want's what is best for his people in the short run, and that's not starting a war. He wants and independent Skyrim just like any other Nord, but he doesn't want war.

That being said I'm a Stormcloak supporter, and it's too bad we don't have more good Jarls like him.

As for him being a scumbag, that's just poor scripting lol.

Hes neutral in the sense that hes not backing either side in the Civil War
There are no Imperial or Stormcloak troops or Thalmor in the settlements of Whiterun Hold and the ban on Talos worship isn't being enforced
Its true that since 1907 there have been strict legal requirements such as not supplying arms to belligerants or not allowing troops of belligerants access to your territory but I doubt that Tamriel has an equivilent to the Hague Convention
A position of neutrality does not require perfect even-handedness between belligerants. Both Spain and Sweden were neutral in WW II but supplied raw materials to Germany

I'm sure they're not imbeciles and will figure it out.

Hm, now where do you get that idea?

no he isn't he is one of the only jarls out there that cares for the future and cares for his city and itd population
and about those chests of gold , as far i know all the jarls had these chests delivered to them including those pro dictator Ulfric ones
It is Ulfric that betrays the jarl of whiterun and not the other way round

and one more thing .. he tells youthat you are now permited to buy a house , he is not giving it away

You have me beaten since I'm a 1980's baby. Comparing to you I am considered a RP rookie. When I choose a series to RP I tend to get as much knowledge as I can possible can obtain to enjoy the Rping experience even farther. By doing this I start developing my own opinions therefor I start choosing sides. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong but I tend leak some of the RL into my RP. I tend to favor the rebels (Ulfric) because I'm a human rights activist. I know how it feels to have your freedom and rights taken away without being charged with a crime.

Not in a sixual way but I kind of bonded with Ulfric and his stormcloak group.

More characters that I create amazingly enough I discover new things like how Balgruuf
isn't this awesome Jarl as many people proclaim that he is. If he truly cared for his people then he should be fighting to restore the freedom to worship Talos, and help Ulfric to get rid of the empire (Thalmor's puppet) and eventually the thalmor themselves since they're the real threat against man kind.


Balgruuf is indeed a true nord. I admire that in him. Just that his stubbornness has caused him to be on the wrong side. I actually admire Rikke. General Tullius should be grateful to have someone like her to be on his side. The imperials gives up way to easy. On battle for Solitude once you enter Castle Dour General Tullius is sitting down in distressed, and even Rikke said that he has given up but she was willing to go down fighting..... That’s the proud nord in her. I wish we could've did something to spare her life because my character went in a deep stage of depression after he was forced to kill her. In spite of him being on the stormcloaks he fell in love with her at first sight.

I'm glad you brought this up because I went through this last night (for the second time). What I ended up doing is maneuvering her off to the side - Ulfric and Galmar backed off to focus on Tullius, which made it a fair fight instead of 3-on-1. I tried to give her an honorable death, and I believe dying for what she felt was right is what she wanted. But it was still difficult for me.

When he says that its none of his business who the Imperials choose to execute, that makes me think WTF? What kind of leader does not care when a foreign army kills people indiscriminately on his country's soil? That told me all I needed to know about Balgruuf.


I admired Rikke as well. She really epitomizes the Nordic ideal of valor and steadfast honor. It was evident that Ulfric and Galmar felt that way as well. They practically begged her to just walk away.

To be honest, one of the things that really strikes me about doing the civil war as the Stormcloaks is just how nice they are to their enemies. When they take over a hold, obviously they put up a new jarl friendly to them. But the old ones are just sent packing, like Balgruuf was. Other rebellions would have seen them executed in extraordinarily gruesome manners. Then in Solitude Ulfric does not want to kill the Rikke, who is the right hand of his enemy. He does not even consider deposing Elisif, he asks for her allegiance, and that is it. The only one he actually offs is the foreign general Tullius. Given how the game starts, I thought it would have been deliciously ironic to send him to the headsman's block. But I can see how that would require an extra scripted scene that that devs probably wanted to avoid. As it is though, even he gets a clean death. A soldier's death in combat in fact (or at least it would have been if Tullius had actually fought back), which is what all Nords aspire to. Even during the war, in Dawnstar you have two prominent ex-legionaries walking around town, one in his Imperial armor, and no one does a thing. They would have been lynched in most RL rebellions. But no one bats an eye.

All deposed Stormcloak Jarls and staff are exiled to the Palace of the Kings, where they hang out with Jorlief.

Skald threatens to execute Brina Merilis and Horik Halkfhand. Also, Skald is practically the only Stormcloak in Dawnstar, and he's trying to get everyone involved, "men, women, and children" -- whether they like it or not. Brina is the one who actually solves problems in the hold. Why would you lynch the most helpful person in the town?

Ahh, so that's what happens to the Jarls. I never went looking for them. I just imagined that they were removed from the game world to simulate some form of exile.

Skald talks a lot. But you notice nothing happens. As you said, Brina seems like she might be the competent one of the two (although all I have seen her do is walk around the town). Skald's just an old blowhard. He talks big, but never takes any action.

How do you think the Founding Fathers of America would have taken to someone wearing a British uniform during one of the Continental Congresses? How do you imagine Lenin would have reacted to seeing someone in a Czarist uniform during the Russian Revolution? Or Robespierre to someone touting their service to King Louis? They would not have just ignored it. I cannot imagine anyone but the Stormcloaks ignoring someone wearing the uniform of their enemy.

But why kill the most helpful person in town? That is exactly what humans seem most likely to always do. When emotion sweeps people up, their brains turn off. Especially in war, because that makes people really riled up.

When does he say that?

When Our characters first enter Dragonsreach after Helgen, there is an option where Our characters admit they had an excellent view of the dragon while the Imperials were trying to behead them.
Deleted console port controls that seem designed to punish PC user rant.