Jarl Balgruuf the Greater is a scumbag

Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:35 pm

But you were there at the party for a whole different set of reasons. It wasn't just to enjoy the party but straight up business.

How many of the influential people in Skyrim would be going to the Thalmor Embassy party for purely social reasons? Realistically most of the partygoers will be there for political reasons of some kind. Attending the event doesn't have to mean they support the Thalmor once they are home in their holds.

I've never seen Jarl Balgruuf at the party anyway.
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SWagg KId
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:18 am

I got Argis from Thongvor Silver-Blood, but your point stands. It's always Balgruuf who gives you Lydia, and it's Balgruuf who must answer for it. :tongue:

My particular character at that time was in such a hurry to get her hands on Argis, that silly Civil War could just wait. My current character wants to marry Ulfric but since that isn't possible, she's settling for making Windhelm her home. (And I'm having Hjerim issues. Again.)

I used to like Balgruuf, but I think I just got tired of Whiterun altogether, so I used Live Another Life to start in Windhelm, and only went to Whiterun to start the main quest so I could then start the Civil War questline. Made the perspective interesting this time around, especially at Battle for Whiterun when he tells my character he's surprised and disappointed in her for being a Stormcloak. "Dude, you made me thane and gave me NO option to refuse, I didn't buy the house, and my housecarl is still standing in the foyer. Oh, and I delivered the axe from Ulfric. What, did you think I was taking side jobs as a courier? If you're surprised, you're as blind as a Falmer."
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Add Meeh
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:22 am

My particular character at that time was in such a hurry to get her hands on Argis, that silly Civil War could just wait. My current character wants to marry Ulfric but since that isn't possible, she's settling for making Windhelm her home. (And I'm having Hjerim issues. Again.)

Ulfric and I just got engaged. Mods, they're a beautiful thing. :tongue:

However if you just want to carry on a torrid affair, you'll find that at some point during the CW quests for the Stormcloaks, Ulfric's gratitude for your services extends far beyond letting you eat and drink for free in his hall and pick up the occasional bit of gold or silverplate that's just laying around. You're actually welcome to pretty much everything in his private quarters, including the bed, which you can now sleep in. While he is in it. :bunny:

I suspect this might be after the conversation where he says he now numbers you among his kin, but it's definitely true after you've finished the whole quest line. I don't think I've ever gone to check on it before that.

Made the perspective interesting this time around, especially at Battle for Whiterun when he tells my character he's surprised and disappointed in her for being a Stormcloak. "Dude, you made me thane and gave me NO option to refuse, I didn't buy the house, and my housecarl is still standing in the foyer. Oh, and I delivered the axe from Ulfric. What, did you think I was taking side jobs as a courier? If you're surprised, you're as blind as a Falmer."

It would be even better if you'd delivered the axe wearing Stormcloak armor. :tongue:

I had a run-in sort of like that with Idolaf Battle-born. This was after I'd taken Whiterun for the Stormcloaks, mind you.

[img]http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9350/battleborn.jpg[/img]

I don't know how he saw through my clever disguise. Of course he probably wouldn't have known that I also fought in the battle, given that he and his Legion armor were apparently hiding in his parents' cellar for the duration.
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Laura Samson
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:05 am

Ulfric and I just got engaged. Mods, they're a beautiful thing. :tongue:

However if you just want to carry on a torrid affair, you'll find that at some point during the CW quests for the Stormcloaks, Ulfric's gratitude for your services extends far beyond letting you eat and drink for free in his hall and pick up the occasional bit of gold or silverplate that's just laying around. You're actually welcome to pretty much everything in his private quarters, including the bed, which you can now sleep in. While he is in it. :bunny:

I suspect this might be after the conversation where he says he now numbers you among his kin, but it's definitely true after you've finished the whole quest line. I don't think I've ever gone to check on it before that.

OMG. **spasm of joy** I did not know that. You just know I'll be checking back after every battle to find out just when my character can sleep in his bed. And I will be finding that mod, too. My blonde Nord stealth warrior chick belongs with Ulfric.

It would be even better if you'd delivered the axe wearing Stormcloak armor. :tongue:

I had a run-in sort of like that with Idolaf Battle-born. This was after I'd taken Whiterun for the Stormcloaks, mind you.

[img]http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9350/battleborn.jpg[/img]

I don't know how he saw through my clever disguise. Of course he probably wouldn't have known that I also fought in the battle, given that he and his Legion armor were apparently hiding in his parents' cellar for the duration.

LOL! Yeah, Idolaf isn't the brightest in the bunch anyway, so I'd almost say that's in character for him.
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Adrian Powers
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:49 pm

I had a run-in sort of like that with Idolaf Battle-born. This was after I'd taken Whiterun for the Stormcloaks, mind you.

[img]http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9350/battleborn.jpg[/img]

I don't know how he saw through my clever disguise. Of course he probably wouldn't have known that I also fought in the battle, given that he and his Legion armor were apparently hiding in his parents' cellar for the duration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FF9_ECtv5U I called it Project Idolaf. I think you might like it.

Spoiler
Hes not a good fighter either... maybe that's why he got rejected from the imperial Legion because they didn't want him.
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Chloé
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:58 am

OMG. **spasm of joy** I did not know that. You just know I'll be checking back after every battle to find out just when my character can sleep in his bed. And I will be finding that mod, too. My blonde Nord stealth warrior chick belongs with Ulfric.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=10354

Supposedly he will also have follower options after you marry him. I have only gotten as far as the engagement, and still need to go to Riften to arrange things. So I can't vouch for it beyond him responding to the Amulet of Mara (which will only happen after you win the CW in his favor). We'll see how it goes, but I've got my fingers crossed.

I discovered the thing about the bed by accident on my last Stormcloak playthrough, after the war was over I decided to poke around the Palace more and I'd never gone through the door from the war room into the upstairs part there. I did that and climbed all the way up and found what I knew had to be the Jarl's bedroom. I was just looking around when the crosshairs went over the bed and I got the "Sleep/Bed" option. I tried it and it worked. So I waited until Ulfric went to bed that night and went back up there and he was in the bed sleeping and I still had the option.

I must confess I also abused the removeallitems command quite a bit after this discovery. The tricky part was remembering to get up and do resetinventory before he woke up and went back downstairs in the morning. Otherwise: awkward! :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FF9_ECtv5U I called it Project Idolaf. I think you might like it.

ROFL.

When I'm in Whiterun and he does that "bash your face in" line I just start a brawl with him. I punch him a couple times and then he runs away like the milk-drinker he is. Then the guards try to arrest me and I have to pull the Thane Card. Then I reload because I'm not wasting the Thane Card on that moron. :P
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FoReVeR_Me_N
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:51 pm

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=10354

Supposedly he will also have follower options after you marry him. I have only gotten as far as the engagement, and still need to go to Riften to arrange things. So I can't vouch for it beyond him responding to the Amulet of Mara (which will only happen after you win the CW in his favor). We'll see how it goes, but I've got my fingers crossed.

I discovered the thing about the bed by accident on my last Stormcloak playthrough, after the war was over I decided to poke around the Palace more and I'd never gone through the door from the war room into the upstairs part there. I did that and climbed all the way up and found what I knew had to be the Jarl's bedroom. I was just looking around when the crosshairs went over the bed and I got the "Sleep/Bed" option. I tried it and it worked. So I waited until Ulfric went to bed that night and went back up there and he was in the bed sleeping and I still had the option.

I must confess I also abused the removeallitems command quite a bit after this discovery. The tricky part was remembering to get up and do resetinventory before he woke up and went back downstairs in the morning. Otherwise: awkward! :tongue:

Thanks for the link, but I already found it. Eager, I am. And that last part - LOL! Thanks for inspiring me. Puts that console command in a whole new light... **sigh**
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SWagg KId
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:15 pm

Thanks for the link, but I already found it. Eager, I am. And that last part - LOL! Thanks for inspiring me. Puts that console command in a whole new light... **sigh**

The really hilarious part is that, obviously, none of his dialogue changes at all... so when you get back downstairs and you open that door Galmar and the Thrice-Pierced guy will both turn to look at you, as they do, and you go on out to the hall and Ulfric's there with Jorleif and whoever else is around and he looks at you but all he says is "Make it quick, I'm a busy man" like nothing ever happened... and you're thinking "dude they totally saw me follow you down from your bedroom, who do you think we're fooling?"

And then you remember that the game doesn't know you're having an affair either, lol.

Side note: if you take Windhelm for the Legion and put Brunwulf on the throne, forget about sleeping over. That bed is still off limits. Go back to Solitude and try your luck with Tullius (or Rikke, if you are so inclined). :tongue:

(I'm guessing the game shows it as still "owned" by Ulfric, since Brunwulf already has a house and a bed of his own elsewhere in the city.)

Oh and speaking of Brunwulf... every time I was in Windhelm, I'd hear Brunwulf yakking about how awful Ulfric is and promising to go talk to him about the situation with the Dunmer. Then I'd do my shopping and whatnot and later stop by the Palace, and who would be there? Brunwulf Free-Winter. Is he talking to the Jarl about the Gray Quarter? No, he's at the table having a meal at the Jarl's, and therefore the city's, expense. Yeah, Brunwulf, Ulfric's a right bastid who won't spend money on what you publicly say he should, but there you are, eating his food and drinking his mead at every opportunity. Pffffft. Advocate for the Dunmer, my @$$.
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Alex Vincent
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:28 am

And what kind of father leaves his children behind in a city controlled by his enemies while he escapes to safety in another part of the country?

Well, okay, maybe a father with those particular children, but they also seem pretty happy after he leaves even though they are apparently confined permanently to the Dragonsreach basemant.

Uhm,,, in my game when I sided with the Stormcloaks Balgruuf and his kids and Irileith were not in the Dragonsreach basemant, they were in the Blue Palace Basemant, along with the rest of the Imperial allied Jarls and their families and retainers. And the kids are much nastier to you after their daddy is defeated.

And I repeat, I see no real difference between the behavior of Balgruuf and any other Jarl, Imperial or Stormcloak.
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Adriana Lenzo
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:55 pm

I finished the CW for the Stormcloaks, and there are definitely kids in the basemant of Dragonsreach. I didn't see any when I went to the basemant of the Blue Palace.

I'll have to go back down and get the names of the kids there, but I'm pretty sure the wiki says that Balgruuf's kids stay in Whiterun.
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Matt Terry
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:28 am

ROFL.

When I'm in Whiterun and he does that "bash your face in" line I just start a brawl with him. I punch him a couple times and then he runs away like the milk-drinker he is. Then the guards try to arrest me and I have to pull the Thane Card. Then I reload because I'm not wasting the Thane Card on that moron. :tongue:

Right after I convert into a werewolf (When I become part of the circle for the companions ) I generally try to find him in beast form within the city grounds, and tear him a new hole. That way I won't get a bounty over my head, and I wont have his sister or whatever come to me forcing me to apologize or she's going to viciously kill me with that iron dagger of hers.


Oh and speaking of Brunwulf... every time I was in Windhelm, I'd hear Brunwulf yakking about how awful Ulfric is and promising to go talk to him about the situation with the Dunmer. Then I'd do my shopping and whatnot and later stop by the Palace, and who would be there? Brunwulf Free-Winter. Is he talking to the Jarl about the Gray Quarter? No, he's at the table having a meal at the Jarl's, and therefore the city's, expense. Yeah, Brunwulf, Ulfric's a right bastid who won't spend money on what you publicly say he should, but there you are, eating his food and drinking his mead at every opportunity. Pffffft. Advocate for the Dunmer, my @$$.

Brunwulf is another sob scumbag that pretends to care. I wonder if hes good friends withBalgruuf
because they both share a common personality trait.... being a scumbag!
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claire ley
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:40 pm

I don't see Ulfric doing a good job of removing Thalmors either. 100% of the time, Stormcloak patrols get there asses whiped back to Sovngarde by Thalmor patrols.
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Jeff Turner
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:35 pm

I don't see Ulfric doing a good job of removing Thalmors either. 100% of the time, Stormcloak patrols get there asses whiped back to Sovngarde by Thalmor patrols.

Yes, that must be why I don't see any Thalmor roaming the countryside after the Stormcloaks win the war. Because they just got tired of whipping SC ass and had to go home for a long rest. :P
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Dawn Porter
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:43 pm



Yes, that must be why I don't see any Thalmor roaming the countryside after the Stormcloaks win the war. Because they just got tired of whipping SC ass and had to go home for a long rest. :P

That just a scripted event by the devs. Beside what has he done about the Fort or the Thalmor embassy? Promises is all Ulfric makes. He's too afraid to go after the Thalmors. After all, it was him who escaped, Thalmor prisonment by agreeing to be their contact. A true Nord would have face his death, before agreeimg to such a shameful plead for his life. What a scum of a Nord?
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phillip crookes
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:45 am

Yeah, they were doing a real bang up job of that, weren't they? I mean it's not like you ever see any Thalmor in Imperial Skyrim... except for all the WGC enforcement squads wandering the country and rounding up more prisoners, and the ones who appear to be permanently installed in Understone Keep, and the ones who keep jumping out of the bushes trying to kill me, and the ones in their Embassy in Haafingar, and the ones occupying Northwatch Keep where they torture a Stormcloak POW that they removed from Imperial custody with the approval of the Legion's commanding officer.

But other than that, sure, they are totally keeping Skyrim 100% Thalmor-free. Go Empire! *rolls eyes*


The Stormcloaks aren't exactly doing a real great job of keeping them out either, by the looks of all those Talos worshippers 'cough'Captured-Stormcloaks'cough' either though. Ni! really does have a point. I just can't see Skyrim by itself (even if it did get Hammerfell in some kind of Alliance) being able to take out the Thalmor when they couldn't WITH Cyrodiil and Hammerfell and what ever other provinces at the time 30 years before. It can be possible but I see it as very very unlikely.
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Tiff Clark
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:51 am

That just a scripted event by the devs. Beside what has he done about the Fort or the Thalmor embassy? Promises is all Ulfric makes. He's too afraid to go after the Thalmors. After all, it was him who escaped, Thalmor prisonment by agreeing to be their contact. A true Nord would have face his death, before agreeimg to such a shameful plead for his life. What a scum of a Nord?

The real question is what has General Tullius and Jarl Elisif the Fair done about the Thalmor Embassy and the Fort? Since it's right on the foot step of Solitude. What do you expect Ulfric to do while the Thalmor Embassy and the Fort is resting comfortably on imperial territory? If Ulfric decided to invade the fort and the Embassy he would not only have to deal with the Thalmor, but also the army of the imperial legion. 2V1 is not a fair fight, and Ulfric knows that would be suicide. If the Empire was smart enough they would've join forces with Ulfric and his army to fight against the Thalmor. Instead the Empire sent General Tullius and his soldiers to deal with Ulfric and his rebel soldiers. NOT A SMART THING TO DO.

No Ulfric is not afraid to go after the Thalmor. The empire is since they got their asses kicked by them so their tail is between their legs with the Mers.
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Amanda Leis
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:24 am

That just a scripted event by the devs.

Riiiight. As opposed to everything else in the game, which is *totally* real and not made up and scripted by the devs to tell a story in a particular way.

Promises is all Ulfric makes. He's too afraid to go after the Thalmors.

As opposed to the Empire, who are *totally* going after the Thalmor all over the place.... oh wait. They're not doing that.

So, to sum up...

Tullius: can do nothing about the Thalmor in current situation, makes promises about sticking it to them in the future if he wins the war.
HERO!
Ulfric: creates a relatively Thalmor-free zone in holds he controls, makes promises about sticking it to them even more in the future if he wins the war.
SCUM!

*rolls eyes*

After all, it was him who escaped, Thalmor prisonment by agreeing to be their contact. A true Nord would have face his death, before agreeimg to such a shameful plead for his life.

There is no proof that Ulfric willingly and knowingly cooperated with the Thalmor, aside from giving up whatever information they forced out of him under torture.

Tullius, OTOH, willingly and knowingly cooperates with the Thalmor, because... um... oh yeah. It's part of his job description. Sad, but nevertheless true.

The Stormcloaks aren't exactly doing a real great job of keeping them out either, by the looks of all those Talos worshippers 'cough'Captured-Stormcloaks'cough' either though.

I have only seen Thalmor escorting prisoners in Imperial-held parts of Skyrim. I have yet to come across any in holds controlled by the Stormcloaks. They can't keep anyone out of territory they don't control. They do seem to keep the Thalmor out of territory they do control.

The only exceptions to this that I have found are instances where the removal of Thalmor NPCs involved in specific quests in specific locations would permanently break those quests for people who complete the CW storyline on the Stormcloak side before finishing them.
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Kim Kay
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:16 pm

The real question is what has General Tullius and Jarl Elisif the Fair done about the Thalmor Embassy and the Fort? Since it's right on the foot step of Solitude. What do you expect Ulfric to do while the Thalmor Embassy and the Fort is resting comfortably on imperial territory? If Ulfric decided to invade the fort and the Embassy he would not only have to deal with the Thalmor, but also the army of the imperial legion. 2V1 is not a fair fight, and Ulfric knows that would be suicide. If the Empire was smart enough they would've join forces with Ulfric and his army to fight against the Thalmor. Instead the Empire sent General Tullius and his soldiers to deal with Ulfric and his rebel soldiers. NOT A SMART THING TO DO.
I believe what Ji Soo was referring to was the lack of action taken by the Stormcloaks against the Thalmor after they have won the war. This means that Solitude is in Stormcloak hands, so I assume they will meet no resistance from Imperial forces. I am assuming you merely misread his post.

Also, the Empire and Stormcloaks would never join forces due to the fact that their goals run counter to eachother. The Empire wants to destroy the Thalmor to reassert their power in Tamriel, whereas Ulfric wants to destroy the Thalmor so that Skyrim can become completely independent from outside forces and to exact revenge. Obviously, the Empire does not want a party within Skyrim to rebel since they need the resources to fight the Thalmor, so sending someone to stop said rebels, in this case Tullius, is a perfectly expected and reasonable reaction.
No Ulfric is not afraid to go after the Thalmor. The empire is since they got their asses kicked by them so their tail is between their legs with the Mers.
Read this, then read it again and again until you know every single fact.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/great-war

Here is one particular detail that I think you should focus on;
"In the end, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed. The Emperor's decision to withdraw from the Imperial City in 4E 174 was bloodily vindicated."

Now you might be asking "Then why did they sign the WGC?" right about now, so let me explain. The White Gold Concordat is a temporary peace. It does not in any way guarantee total vassalage on the Empire's part, nor did it originally grant permission for the Thalmor to roam freely to arrest Talos worshippers. What it did guarantee, atleast what we do know from the small amount of information it had, was that it ceded Hammerfell to the Dominion, outlawed Talos worship in the Empire, and an end to the war. When Hammerfell resisted, Titus was forced to renounce is a province in order to preserve the recent peace. Until the Markarth Incident, the Empire enforced the ban on Talos worship. Of course, the ban was entirely ignored and everyone kept their shrine to Talos, as Alvar would tell you. I do not think the Thalmor can wipe out Talos by kidnapping worshippers one at a time, so it is paramount that the Thalmor do not defeat the Empire or any of the provinces otherwise they can eliminate Talos worshippers at a far faster rate. The purpose of the WGC was to allow the Empire to build up for the next Great War, so by maintaining peace, albeit a very cold peace, the Empire can increase the chances of it and humanity achieving victory.
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matt oneil
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:10 am

Yeah, they were doing a real bang up job of that, weren't they? I mean it's not like you ever see any Thalmor in Imperial Skyrim... except for all the WGC enforcement squads wandering the country and rounding up more prisoners, and the ones who appear to be permanently installed in Understone Keep, and the ones who keep jumping out of the bushes trying to kill me, and the ones in their Embassy in Haafingar, and the ones occupying Northwatch Keep where they torture a Stormcloak POW that they removed from Imperial custody with the approval of the Legion's commanding officer.
But other than that, sure, they are totally keeping Skyrim 100% Thalmor-free. Go Empire! *rolls eyes*

The Stormcloaks aren't exactly doing a real great job of keeping them out either, by the looks of all those Talos worshippers 'cough'Captured-Stormcloaks'cough' either though. Ni! really does have a point. I just can't see Skyrim by itself (even if it did get Hammerfell in some kind of Alliance) being able to take out the Thalmor when they couldn't WITH Cyrodiil and Hammerfell and what ever other provinces at the time 30 years before. It can be possible but I see it as very very unlikely.
This
and
Now you might be asking "Then why did they sign the WGC?" right about now, so let me explain. The White Gold Concordat is a temporary peace. It does not in any way guarantee total vassalage on the Empire's part, nor did it originally grant permission for the Thalmor to roam freely to arrest Talos worshippers. What it did guarantee, atleast what we do know from the small amount of information it had, was that it ceded Hammerfell to the Dominion, outlawed Talos worship in the Empire, and an end to the war. When Hammerfell resisted, Titus was forced to renounce is a province in order to preserve the recent peace. Until the Markarth Incident, the Empire enforced the ban on Talos worship. Of course, the ban was entirely ignored and everyone kept their shrine to Talos, as Alvar would tell you. I do not think the Thalmor can wipe out Talos by kidnapping worshippers one at a time, so it is paramount that the Thalmor do not defeat the Empire or any of the provinces otherwise they can eliminate Talos worshippers at a far faster rate. The purpose of the WGC was to allow the Empire to build up for the next Great War, so by maintaining peace, albeit a very cold peace, the Empire can increase the chances of it and humanity achieving victory.
This.

If the Stormcloaks ruled Skyrim, the Thalmor would just waltz on into Skyrim and take over. With the WGC, they can't just do whatever they feel like, they have to co-operate with the Empire. They're both just waiting until their armies are both strong enough again to take over.
Also, I see Thalmor patrols in Eastmarch and The Rift often.

I'm not necessarily opposed to the Stormcloak ideals and such, but it's just Ulfric is a tool and the timing is wrong.
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Sammie LM
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:58 am

And so beckons, another civil war debate.
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dean Cutler
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:47 am

And so beckons, another civil war debate.


This. Can we please return to how Balgruuf is scum.
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Czar Kahchi
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:53 am

And so beckons, another civil war debate.

Heh. No kidding. *sigh* Let's just talk about Balgruuf....
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Blackdrak
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:24 am

Seriously, thinking the Thalmor will stomp independant Skyrim is fine for an RP and personal opinion, whatever, but its frankly kind of foolish to try and argue that from a perspective of metagame and push it as fact.

Bethesda like to tie up their endings. Not since Daggerfall have there been 'multiple' endings to a game, and rather than choose an ending they thought up the Warp in the West. Events in most of the games are usually only spoken of in the vaguest terms and in rumors, with perhaps overvews of events in books that fit no matter what you choose. Unless Bethesda is tally of who picks which side, which I severely doubt they are because they are all about everyones story being the 'true' one, then its not going to matter in TESVI if you picked Imperial or Stormcloak.

There will likely be talk of strife, how a civil war with the Stormcloaks was overshadowed by the return of the dragons, and how the Dovahkiin played in important part in resolving events. It will probobly talk about an army of Imperial forces and the Children of Skyrim fight the Thalmor. It will probobly neglect to mention who eventually won the war, just that it happened. The death of the Emperor will probobly be noted as overshadowing that little detail. They will either win against the Thalmor, or lose, no matter who picked what side.

Or it could be resolved in DLC full stop. We might lead soldiers of our chosen faction and fight a Thalmor invasion/attack of some sort. Perhaps, snce they are trying to do more SI size DLC, we will actually go to Summerset or a small part of it and stomp the Thalmor where they live.

Also, if you simply must assert the one truth of Imperial supperiorty, then for Talos sake stop bringing up real world wars and size/numbers. They matter squat in TES. If it was a matter of numbers the Thalmor would never have stood a chance in the first place. Nor does anyone ever factor in the harnessed natural disaster that is the Dragon Born. Things world differently in this universe, and there are many reasons the Stormcloaks could have a good chance in-universe. For a start, while things are tense, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Ulfric spared Balgrrug because it made a point, and Elisef because it was good politics. He will likely fight beside both the Empire and forge an alliance with Hammerfell in the short term to crush the Dominion. I've also seen it mentioned that the the Empire was not prepared for the war, and as such was caught with its pants down, so to speak. No idea how true this is since I haven't researched it. What is true is that Skyrim has, when push came to shove, fought of the combined forces of Hammerfell (the same that with the remnants of a single Legion as back eventually pushed the Dominion from their land) and High Rock at once to a clear victory and even took and held more land afterwards during the Imperial Similicrum.Another interesting point, a big one regarding numbers and the chances of a independant Skyrim is the example of Ysgramor.

I'm not really interested in anyone disectng the above points, just added them as food for thought, as my main point is contained in the first third of the post. From an out of game point of view ts almost certainly not going to matter which side you choose, and its not hard to fnd reasons to support the Stormcloaks from an RP perspective. Belief the Empire is little more than a vassal state. That even if they are not, they are trying to play the long game with Elves. That the Emperor caved, and after all the blood that had been spilled, the Emperor (alegedly) gave the Dominion pretty much what they originally demanded in the WGC. That Skyrim should be independant. For a Dunmer, building bridges can be one reason, and is for one of my charactrers. However, i'll freely admit there are just as many reasons to support the Imperials. I don't really need to restate them as others do so - constantly lol.

Bethesda designed the game so that the answer depended on your character, rather than there being any actual genuine better side. Both sides have their benefits and negatives, but a portion of the playerbase seems to have decded to start championing the Empire as the one real choice, and the Stormcloaks as - I quote from at least twice int he thread 'just stupid.'
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Robert Jackson
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:15 pm

Back on subject....

Just to confirm that Balgruuf's children, Dagny and Nelkir does not leave Dragonreach right after their father gets exiled from whiterun, well in my game that is. Maybe is a glitch but they're still there. They're in the basemant right next to the whispering lady door.

Even Balgruuf's children are scumbags, especially his daughter since she speaks so kind about the city with her finest quote "Absurd that you can't get good sweet rolls in this skeeverhole of a city."

Scumbag must run in the family.
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James Baldwin
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:30 am

@Alixen: actually the major preponderance of "player sympathy" in this forum has always been for the 'cloaks. This thread seems to be the opposite - but I believe it's one of very few with that bent.
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jason worrell
 
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