Da sad truth....

I think you could become a lich by being recruited by a lich to help him/her and you move up in the ranks and get the oportunity to steal the lichs secrets and maybe even threaten his power ending in a power struggle and you leaving victorious and on your way to immortaity, But that's just an idea...

I Think this is cool. I've always wanted to be a lich in ElderScrolls IV Its just that all the lich mods all don't work or there no good. and one that i have had even crashed when i tryed to become a lich. I'm debating on to just make one for myself or just keep looking for one... But the truth is i probaly won't find a good one... Its sad when you think about it. lol ^_^

It would be interesting but I'd rather it not be like contracting the vampire disease. I wouldn't want to magically get it from a monster, but it should be something that you choose to become.

I do believe the character would become terribly overpowered though to make up for the loss of the ability to be a civil being.

Really? I find being a maxed out mage boring. There's nothing left to look forward to. At least with lichdom I'd have another level of power to seek :shrug:

lich,s would be so cool but maybe some sort of spell called disguise which disguises you for an in game hour or so

Becoming a lich would be cool, but there needs to be more interaction. Without it, being a lich would become very boring very fast. You wouldn't be able to do quests, trade etc.

Liches don't need to trade or do any assistance boy missions.

Few Lich/other communities you can be in.

Illusion allows you to hide your true identity

It must be different to be worth anything, not just human with weird skin.

Fair warning and threats of it being eternal

Maybe a cure through complex and long rituals

Lich towns would not exist for the exact same reason there is rarely 2 great Telvanni mages in the same area at the same time, but then again there exists Telvanni towns.

I can hardl imagine two liches beintg too close to each other, let alone in the same city. If a lich owned a city, it would be filled with undeads and thralls. I do not think that liches wish to socialise with other liches.

TES is full of exceptions and mysteries.

Exceptions

Good idea. There should also be 3 different types of liches/undead you can become. A fighter type a mage type or a stealth type. Or a battle mage.
I hope they make this in tesV if they do make a tesV.

-w2drs21

If becoming a lich were an option, then it should be just another part (or maybe a motive) for the character to complete the main quest. You'd just have to do things in a slightly different way: maybe, instead of being some Baron or Count somewhere you'd be cursed into lichdom and start your own undead faction to strike back at the daedra.

The option would exist, but you would essentially be locked into certain roles as a lich in the game (the roles could be justified based on how certain characters treat you).

The benefit of having lichdom be a "curse" rather than a self-inflicted experiment is that you can always have the curse lifted.

Well, I think the next leap in technology will fill the gap, if not close it. But it seems like you don't like that as a lich, you are resigned to "evil" and therefore the ability to become a lich would actually be restricting in that it makes the world very black and white. I say, you cannot have shades of gray without blurring the existing edges of black and white. Just as you COULD be a paladin who always heals the weak, only destroys the wicked, you should be able to have one option that is just pure evil--the lich. Unlike becoming a vampire, which can happen unexpectedly, you must CHOOSE to become a lich. And, vampires by nature retain some of their human emotions and thoughts, just as werewolves trasnform back into humans. Liches, however, allow their humanity to corrupt and decay completely. Only evil or sick people would ever associate with you, despite how "good" you might act. But who ever trapped their eternal soul in a rotting husk to pursue forbidden knowledge in the name of good? Any lich who regretted his decision would not choose to act like a hero, he would simply destroy himself.

That is why the biggest conflict for allowing the player to become a lich is that there is no "cure." Werewolfism and vampirism are diseases, which can eventually be treated. Being a lich is a complete transformation. What you could allow is for someone who has become a lich to perhaps "possess" somebody, essentially killing an NPC and then animating their corpse with your evil soul.

If they can integrate it so that it fells realistical I wouldn't mind.

You mean a werewolf, a lich, and a vampire? (yeah, I know werewolves aren't undead, but it fits with the theme)

And why exactly do we assume that liches are evil? In TES III and IV they are creatures. They are neither good nor evil. As much as ou cannot say that trolls are evil (the ones in the game I mean). If Beth decides to make liches playable, they will, in my opinion have to change their approach to them entirely, like making them NPCs (like vampires) instead of creatures. And when they do, it will be up to them to decide whether they are good o bad. Liches are "products" of necromancy and necromancy is a legal form of magic in the Empire (save for Morrowind that has its own laws and shun necromancy and in TES IV save for the Mages' Guild, but due to the progress of this guild's quest in Oblivion, we know that this may change). The only Lich we know something about is Mannimarco and I think it is debatable whether he is trully evil.

Besides, I do not know what are the feelings about necromacy and lichdome in Skyrim (most probable location of TES V). What if they like liches there? What if they use something like Baelnorn from AD&D (i.e. good lich-protector). It is up to Beth to decide this and I really do not see why we should think that these things are set to stone.

If Beth decide so, liches can be pink fluffy rabbit-like creatures that have only one purpose in life - entertain children.

Lichdom is stupid. If everyones scared of you how can you even play the game??

If you read my post, I included: Unlike becoming a vampire, which can happen unexpectedly, you must CHOOSE to become a lich. And, vampires by nature retain some of their human emotions and thoughts, just as werewolves transform back into humans. Liches, however, allow their humanity to corrupt and decay completely.

That having been said, there was a lich in Bloodmoon who was not-so-evil, and a lich in Tribunal who I think you had friendly dialogue with. Either way, they had to at least have done something wrong, otherwise you wouldn't have been seen to find them.

And here it is again. Assumptions treated like facts.



I've read your post. That is why I reacted. Yet I do not find anything either in it or in this other post of yours that sais that liches have to be evil. It is their decision to get rid of part of them to promote another. They surrender "life" to embrace "death" in a form of undeath. It is their cohice, but I do not see why it is an evil choice. It depends on how the lichdom is achieved, but so far it seems that you do not have to harm anyone to become a lich, just yourself (Now, I do not remember that book on that necromancer who wishes to become a lich in Oblivion, but I think it did not state how the ritual proceeds). So why is it evil? It is a way to escape death. Sure by this very fact you deny the very base of your humanity, but on the other hand you promote your rational and logical mind (because it is no longer limited by emotions), which is another essential part of humanity.
I agree that talking to a lich would not be a pleasant thing to do. I suspect that many people would feel uneasy in your presence or outright fear you, but that does not mean that they are evil. and one more thing. If you played Bloodmoon, the Nords there had some kind of "zombies" (I donot remember teh name exactly), whom they used as guardians of their tombs. So for them, the undead were not so abominable, but actually useful (it is not said whether those guys chose this fate willingly or not, though), so perhaps the Skyrim Nords will see liches in a completely different way. the point is tha we do not know. Everyting is possible

Lichdom is done for one of two reasons, power and the longevity of being one. Now, we've have seen some benevolent liches (BM and Tribunal's liches). They chose the road to lichdom to pretty much protect people by increasing their lifespan. Then there's the other road to basically increase their power and the immortality with it. That group tends to attract amoral mages, those who want to extend their life and/or wield greater magics by living longer, or they want to live forever, be more powerful, and drown kittens because they are evil. It is not inherently evil, it just seems that way.

For one, I don't think it completely decays and corrupts ones humanity. As we have seen, the two benevolent liches held on to their humanity. The other kinds already gave it up. With Mannimarco, for example, he was already amoral, and his ascension to lichdom was only to extend his life forever so he can find a way to give Arkay the middle finger some day. Either way, blatantly saying all liches are evil is too much of a generalized statement.

With all that said, all liches we have seen remained in hiding, for no one would just let them wander around. Even Mannimarco would not just take a stroll down the street. You had to come to him, or beckon him too you if you wanted to strike a deal. The process is irreversible, mostly because those who do become liches in the first place do not want to go back to being mortal and die. Plus, no one has really found a way to reverse your body from a lifeless husk to not a lifeless husk

I would agree except for two things. Is Mannimarco really evil? to me, he seemed like a guy who wants more power and more knowledge. That by itself does not have to be evil. I did not play Daggerfall, but in Oblivion, there are several books on him (mostly done in a black and white manner, where Manni is The Evil and Mages' Guild is The Good, which makes me think taht the letter is an author of those texts), but I do not see any reason why to see him as evil

Also, why would not a lich stroll the street? Not in Morrowind, where necromancy is illegal and lichdom mostly redundant - Dark elves can live for a very long time (see Lord Fyr who is curently 4000 years old and in good health) and probably not in Cyrodiil after the ban on necromancy, but that does not cover the whole empire.

In Oblivion, necromancers are seen as an evil group, but why? They are for no reason hunted by the MG, they are outlaws, so they atract outlaws. That makes sense. But to me it seems that they just wish to destroy the one who wants to destroy the and the one who started the war in the first place.

I never said Mannimarco is evil, he just likes power and he strikes me as someone who is more amoral rather than evil. And he wants to give Arkay the middle finger permanently.

Well, from http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/corpse_preparation.shtml it seems to imply how each providence would react too those who practice the necromatic arts. In Black Marsh there probably are wandering corpses around with all the sload trade and all, and a city of necromancers. The khajiit really don't seem to care, and you can get your own bodies for a price, so I doubt they have issues. Nords and Orsinium are probably a mix, maybe, or tolerated. Altmer I highly doubt would allow a lich to wander by, along with the people of Hammerfell, Morrowind, parts of Cyrodiil, and Valenwood (they'd eat the corpse). While High Rock may allow necromancers to practice on criminals, I'm not sure about if they'd let a lich walk by. But...Mannimarco did seem to have huge political influence. So, unless you have some big influence, most people are probably going to have a huge disposition hit on you. Not to mention you probably stink.

Might as well revive this thread with an idea.

A possible way to become a lich that would require the player to invest time and actually role play the character's desires might be to place a book in a dungeon somewhere very well hidden. Have the book completely describe how to make the change. It would leave out locations of certain items required, so you would have to hunt for those. Now the hard part comes from making this an undocumented quest. No one leads you to it, there's no one to check in with, you just get the book and seek out the ritual items, then you can be a lich. There could be clues as to where to find the objects spread around the world, so it isn't impossible, but it will definitely require a commitment.

Thoughts?

Read my rants why it's not feasible in the first place (i.e. no one will like you at all).