I have played skyrim for about 200 hours. Have you been to any of the taverns except the ones in the major cities? Evidently not...

Did I say cuts were better than lowered visuals? No


Actually, he's saying that they are at most settlements. Go and play Skyrim, read the ingame literature then come back and try again.


It's very relevent, I even used Balmora as an example.

So,what are you saying ? that Skyrim "cities" are "little" or/and with a "bad design" ? that a few more buildings or a design that meet your tastes would have make them "real cities" ?
You've completely misunderstood what i've stated,sadly. And for the record the "imperial city" was a pain in the ass apart from the arena...a bunch of copy and paiste houses surrounded by walls and nothing in the surroundings.. you can't impose your view...i think that solitude is far greater in terms of "design" of the imperial city,and so Markarth and windhelm- even if they're only "settlements" at the end - so ? you want back shops open 24 hrs at day perhaps ? or you miss the adoring fan ? its specified in the lore and in the books why Skyrim cities are so "small" i repeat. And all is scaled down of course -like was in previous games of the series.


My post was not referred to you

A little misunderstanding, it seems, because the part you quoted wasn't for you either, lol. I included your quote in that post because it effectively answered Slyme, loll

Then don't bring up hardware limitations as excuses for smaller cities. I mean, you referenced a post which wasn't even the one Mit or myself responded to.
Yes, the lore repeatedly describes them as cities. Many are described as being quite wealthy, and Whiterun has apparently been called the "Imperial City of Skyrim", according to UESP.
I'm not arguing that the lore has cities that are too small, I'm arguing that the game does. Lore descriptions are irrelevant because I've never been talking about the lore. Everyone realizes and accepts that things have to be scaled down from book descriptions to realistically meet a game deadline. That's still not an excuse for implementing cities that are roughly half the size of Morrowind's major cities.

woah woah woah... I don't remember bringing up hardware limitations? If I did then it wasn't intended


Imperial City of Skyrim is not a comparison of size, but rather location. Whiterun is the most central location in Skyrim that isn't a camp, fort, cave or other such dungeon.


Again...

Bah, City slickers...

You stated that for Balmora to be implemented with Skyrim's visuals, significant content cuts would need to be made. The implication being that the hardware would be insufficient. Mit pointed out that the hardware has improved since Morrowind. I agreed, but argued that it wouldn't justify the smaller cities even if it was hardware limitations---the solution being to tone down the graphics before cutting content.
Take note, that you ignored the majority of my point. The lore does describe the cities as cities. Skyrim is not Solstheim.
Again, I am not talking about the lore.

If you can explain how the lore is in any way relevant to the game's representation of cities, then do that. Don't just keep saying that game cities are scaled down from lore cities. Everyone knows that, no one is terribly upset that some scaling down must occur. The point is still that the cities are too small.

Ok, I see now that I should've worded it better, that is my mistake.


I don't see how I ignored your point, but I'm sure you'll make it quite clear. That being said, there is a city not more than 15 miles from me that is smaller than the TOWN I live in. Just because a city is described as a city, doesn't mean it's huge.


Noted, and will bear that in mind.


I believe the size of the cities in game have already been dealt with; not by anyone here, but by the ingame literature.

These comparisons to Morrowind are funny because if anything these more numerous but smaller cities are more like Morrowind than Oblivion.

And I don't think number of buildings are a correct way to measure a town's size, Whiterun have quite a few bits that Balmora doesn't like an actual live marketplace, a castle for example...

If anything they are at the same size, and Solitude is also around the same size...

Seriously, I never want to see another Vivec again. 90% of the buildings in Morrowind were there either for one NPC/quest, or just there to make the cities appear bigger. Most of the houses had occupants that wandered around town with no job or activity. They were repetitive and served no purpose. I wish I still had those rose colored glasses people are passing around in here...

I miss that too,I wish skyrim could get a big city in a DLC that adds alot of shops etc.. D:
Morrowind shops was the best<3

It's mentioned in the lore the cities only consist of a few buildings? Cannot hide behind the lore on this one, it was a rush job a design decision not a lore decision. The design of the buildings and the layout is fine but they could have been expanded more so if this game had not been rushed, was the Imperial City a nightmare to explore because you had no idea where you was going, I knew where I was all the time in thay city, and then Balmora actually felt like a city and that had a good design to it as well. My thoughts on this is Skyrim was rushed and cities is another area that suffers because of it.

What is the problem with more in the game, it makes me scratch my head when people are content with less: yes I would like more shops and buildings within the cities so they are actual cities not a few houses with a shop with the label of a city.

Its clearly specified that Skyrim cities are "settlements" more than cities;Imperial City is the capital of all Tamriel and Cyrodill is the "cosmopolitan centre" according to the lore.

For you it was a design decision ? fine..i disagree on that,and i firmly believe that even Winterhold with his three/four buildings (but we have tha college that is magnificent in my opinion in terms of design) the great collapse etc. are a great plot for a future Dlc.

No one here is content with less,at least i can speak for me...and the fact that you felt Balmora or the Imperial City like "real cities" is personal,because i've already explained that few buildings/shops more don't make a "real" city...you feel it more like a city,its different.

Take Markarth for instance...its developed even underground with great atmosphere,and the design of this "city" to me is far superior to everything before.

What you are saying is that probably Morrowind and Oblivion settlements were more "comfortable" to you (shops etc.) ,and i agree partially on that -but this in my opinion is due to a strict decision of the developers to give Skyrim the typical nord harshness -so yes,we have settlements instead of "cities",no book shops and all is more "rude" - but sometimes the less is the better if developed in a good way.

And Skyrim apart from the lack of depth already mentioned is far superior in terms of design and game world to all the previous Tes games. And have even a great atmosphere,you feel were you are here,not like oblivion sadly.

Morrowind of course had the best potential for a fantastic game world,let's hope that we could return here for a Dlc concernig the Great Collapse and the volcanic eruption at least.

If we talk of "more life" in general i agree,but that "harshness" mentioned above fits well in this game for me. And with the Dlcs to come i'm confident that we could have a different experience even in that regard.Think positive instead of shovel [censored] on someone else's hard work.

Its too easy to call "laziness" what you don't like in the game,you know.

This phrase should be stickied. I cannot stand the attitude of gamers who bandy the word "lazy" around simply because feature X or Y isn't in the game.

I brought up a few examples: They are described as cities in the lore, as well as said to be quite wealthy. Wealthy cities are large because other people want a piece of that wealth. Instead you latched on to one off-handed remark about "The Imperial City of Skyrim", which was meant more to indicate the perception of the city, rather than any objective sizing.

There's no hard distinction between a town and a city. A town can just as easily be the same size or larger than a city. That doesn't mean that cities aren't large.
I don't know what this means. How does in game literature differ from lore?
The issue is not the number of total settlements, but the size of the major ones.

I don't know why it matters what structure exist in a city. So Whiterun has a castle. What of it? Skyrim doesn't have any plant towers to my knowledge. Structures should exist because they make sense within the town being created, not to fill some arbitrary quota.

Next, they aren't the same size. Even counting the four stalls in Whiterun's outdoor market, Balmora is still a dozen odd structures larger.
Citation please.

Also explain what the Imperial City and Cyrodiil have to do with the in game representations of Skyrim's cities.

I miss Xivilais.

What is,an interrogation? i'm too old for these jokes... if you read some of the in game books
and the lore you will find your answers ..good reading...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Books
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Holds_of_Skyrim

and if you read my previous answers you will find even because the Cyrodill and Imperial City were discussed here.

I didn't say cities aren't large. It now sounds to me like you're trying to twist what has been said for your own devices. I seem to recall that you kept using "The Imperial City of Skyrim" as a comparison of size, especially when you kept repeating "the cities are too small."


I was just reiterating that your problem has been addressed. Either that, or you should be bit more specific about your problem.

The links don't seem to support your claim. I mean, yes it says that four of the holds contain small settlements, but that still leaves five not small capitals. I don't need every capital to be huge; morrowind only had four large cities---Balmora, Ald-ruhn, Sadrith Mora, and Vivec, with the rest being average or small. Most capital descriptions are vague, not really commenting on size. Others would seem to indicate that certain capitals are in fact quite large:

"Here, at the capital city of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dawnstar, can be found one of the busiest ports in the province."
(Unless this is supposed to be a joke, I'm not sure how one boat is enough to represent even a scaled down representation of this port)

Other sources would indicate similar qualities:

"Over time, Solitude became one of the wealthiest cities and counties in Skyrim, and by the end of the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Third_Era it controlled most of the northern coastline of Skyrim after King http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Thian married Queenhttp://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Macalla of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dawnstar."
(As discussed earlier, wealthy cities don't stay small. Money is going to attract businesses and workers, leading to ever more expansion)

I still don't understand what the Imperial City has to do with in game representation of Skyrim's hold capitals. Yes, the Imperial City is supposed to be the largest in Tamriel. But that doesn't mean that all future TES games must adhere to the scale set by Oblivion. I mean, Daggerfall 's in game size dwarfs all of the most recent TES games put together. Even Morrowind, with world design much more in line with Oblivion and Skyrim, had some cities that were larger than those that were in both Skyrim or Oblivion---barring the Imperial City, which I think is the biggest, but I can't be bothered to compare it to Vivec right now.
I had only ever mentioned "Imperial City of Skyrim" once, and it was mentioned alongside other, more important, examples. Those examples you ignored.

I've been extremely specific about what I want. That's why I've been using actual numbers. Why do you think I keep talking about how the major cities in Morrowind were roughly twice the size of the major cities in Skyrim? I'm not just spouting non sequiturs. I want cities of at least those sizes again, and I'd like to see some even bigger. I want the threefold increase in team size to actually be put towards creating a greater amount of content.

No need, The shops svck %&*%& in Skyrim

I dont have a problem with the smaller cities. The detail in them (architecturally wise) is now great.

I see the difference being a cultural one. Think about Cyrodil for a sec. Imperials.............they are going to want something grandiose in their cities. Not to mention a province like that with that weather is going to attract a lot more people, even if it doesn't necessarily number out like that in the game. Imperials are going to have a "because we can" mentality in designing a city.

On the other hand, Nords are a very practical, simple people. They would seek functionality in the designs of their towns. No reason for them to overdo it. Not to mention smaller towns are easier to defend, and they have at one time or another had to defend those cities from Orcs and the Imperials.

If you want bigger cities, they would almost have to be cities with more Imperial influence...........

.............like Solitude.......and Whiterun.........and Markarth.........see the theme there? Cities with big imperial influence being bigger than the others. Mayb it is coincidence........maybe not.,

Ok, now this what I mean. Are you talking about the provinces themselves or the games?

Except the cities in Morrowind were bigger also---bigger than a lot that were in Oblivion---and they also existed in harsh lands with periodic ash storms and an unwelcoming population.

This argument is still operating with the idea that Oblivion is, for some reason, the canon size of in-game provinces/cities. It would ridiculous to limit things in this way.
The games, brother. If I had a problem with the lore, I'd be over on the lore forums complaining. I would not be on the Skyrim general forums explicitly discussing the in-game size of cities.