I don't believe it would have been such a bad game if it would have stayed true to D2's loot table and itemization. I fault the GAH and RMAH for it being such an utter fail.

Yes.

What in the are you talking about? Do you know how much money ArenaNet made from Guild Wars 2?

I don't think he does.... He seems to be under the impression that they can't keep it running.

LMAO! No, they aren't hurting for cash I'm sure, but to be smart they aren't throwing large amounts of cash at the game either now are they? If they were, simple things like erroneous tooltips would've been fixed, bugged quests would be fixed, culling in WvW and LA would be fixed. They put all of their cash in to short term "content" hoping it'll keep people interested.

Personally, P2P doesn't automatically mean a game will be good, but neither does B2P or even F2P to some regards. For me it boils down simply to if a game is good enough and has enough content to last me for years and I generally enjoy it, I'll happily pay $10/15 a month because even with all of my bills and part time minimum wage job, that's still a tiny amount for the potential enjoyment and entertainment value I may get from the game.

I too played GW2 (leveled 3 characters to 80) and while I'll completely admit it was a great game, it was only a good game for a few months and then it lost it's appeal. GW2 was a great game for the $59.99 but I would never have paid a sub for it. On the other hand I've happily paid subs for WoW, Rift, EvE WarHammer Online, some foreign french under the radar developed MMO's and even Runescape way way back when. And never once from any of those games did I not fully get my money's worth in entertainment and enjoyment.

So I'm with the P2P crowd here and fervently hoping the game is P2P and without any form of micro-transactions of a cash shop.

Roughly $180 million... after many many years of developement. My guess is that they are near break even.

im hoping its B2P if not i most likely would not buy the game, GW2 is nice for me haven't played it much but when im not working or spending time with friends i dont have to worry about paying monthly to play 3hours a week.

But you said they don't make enough to keep it running.

And... Isn't Arenanet's single product GW? Wouldn't that mean they are throwing all their cash at it? If not where is it going?

This seems to have become less a statement about different business models, and more a statement of your dislike for the flaws of GW2 that have nothing to do with their business model.

Aion, Tera -- there are a bunch of free MMOs that will keep you playing for more than 3 months. Guild Wars 2 just didn't hold onto certain types of people for as long (including me) as traditional MMOs due to how it was made, not the payment model.

I've always looked at MMOs as a suitable mode of household entertainment which cost effectively beat almost anything out there other than watching Uncle Fred pick lint from his navel. When budgeting I tend to compare the monthly cost of the game to what it would cost to take my family to the movies only three nights out of the entire month. I played a subscription game for 6 years and had 5 accounts for my family members. This got very expensive at $15/mth. My guild then moved to a game that offered lifetime accounts in the first year of enrollment at $200 a pop. Although expensive at first, we bought 5 of these accounts, have stayed with the game for six years, and have purchased the four expansions when each has come out. We've definitely paid to play, but not having a monthly fee has helped a lot. We also feel we have stayed with the game because of this initial cost. When trying newer monthly sub MMOs since this, we almost always end up dumping them due to lack of content also associated with a monthly cost we don't want to continue paying in the hopes the game will eventually improve. Today, our old game is F2P for some of the content, P2P for other content, and there is now an online store to purchase items for in-game use. These introductions were likely made to keep the game afloat in the real world, but in game they make the game producers appear greedy to many players, and the game loses something in all this, especially when it begins to feel that you can pay to win. Overall my preference would be to leave the online stores out of it, offer lifetime accounts for a one-time purchase in the first three months of the game, or monthly accounts at a reasonable $10/mth which I will willingly pay so long as the game stays fresh.

And F2P games don't? How funny...

Put your RL bets on this game being P2P guys, it's going to happen.

Clearly they haven't broke even, that is why they are all so giddy about it.

Also.... Where are you getting the $180 Million? I can't find their profits listed anywhere.

Edit: I mean.... They have sold at least 2 Million Copies... Each at least 59.99.... Anyone who isn't terrible at math know how we can turn that into exact profits?

Probably will. Which I am upset about. Ah well. Just need to put it next to Redguard in my list of Elder Scrolls games I don't care about. Shame, it looks good.

Let's just hope they keep making SP.

F2P has too many hidden costs, points stores, etc. that ultimately change game dynamics and stear me clear of them.

I never said that they don't have enough cash to keep it running. But... I'm done with GW2 in game and in thread.

That would be gross... They claim to have sold 3 million copies at $60 each... Not an exact amount, but a rough minimum estimate.

Certain games will try to milk cash off you, regardless of the payment model. But all pay-to-play games milk cash off you.

I place 5 Starwars on it being buy-to-play.


Not all F2P games. A lot of MMOs are doing F2P right.

Then what was

"They don't make enough money to keep that game running. It's a shame." all about?

Ah, I meant... They don't make enough money to keep that game running well.

And you imagine 180 Million dollars isn't enough for them to break even? You really think they put more than 180 Million dollars into developing it?

I think they've spent too much for it to be buy to play. I honestly think they will have to go with pay to play.

The game seems to be running well to me.

That entirely depends on your personal definition of what "milking you" is as I've never found paying a small fee every month for a game I play fairly regularly and far more than most 30 - 50 hour singleplayer games I buy for $15 is me being "milked". On the other hand though I feel like that all of the time every time I have to whip out my credit card to buy something from the cash shop or micro-transaction related.

Side note, love the Starwars emote thingies

So.... what do we have to say about every Elder Scrolls game? They must have not made enough money to make it run well either, yes? And they don't even have servers to maintain. Pathetic.

F2P typically ends up costing a player more than P2P. Its like ordering al a carte. You're just better off buying the meal. IMO $15 a month for unlimited entertainment value is nothing. I pay more than that for one trip to the movie theater.