So every single MMORPG since WoW has a bad game design?

As far as I'm concerned there are no really successful P2P MMORPGs currently on the market other than WoW and EVE, and this leaves me wondering whether it's a good idea of ZOS to expect ESO to be the "Next Big Thing" only to then force a F2P model on the game ala SWTOR if it doesnt work out.

Hopefully it will be 15$/month like every other mmo that was worth a ****. That way the devs have some incentive to keep making content for us.

Nope, its lack of players because there was nothing in the game to hold on to players. They were forced into F2P by dev's making horrible choices. Thats why all the games had heads rolling before they did go to F2P. Going F2P was never a good thing for any of them, its a last ditch effort to sqeeze some pennies out of people.


Yeah pretty much, they were forced to go F2P because they lost all their population because the games were crap. It's perfectly fine for them to try and be the next best thing, there is a hell of alot of mmorpg players out there without a good game to call home in, its all up to ZOS to make a game that will attract and keep them.

LotRO or DDO has yet to zap any money for me yet here I am 2 years later still playing, I call that pretty good

No... you don't know what you're saying.

You don't know what your saying.

usual rule of thumb ive seen is that if you want everything through ala carte its usually equivalent to around a few years worth of sub

but at least once its unlocked it stays that way until they stop the servers so if you think you can get a few years out of a F2P, ala carte isnt that bad

You don't know what your saying.

Im glad we can construct a civilized argument.

I still say its pointless to argue of this though

Yeah its a pretty pointless argument that deserves pointless debate threads.

Not all games that go F2P 'had' to. LotRO didnt have to convert, but it did and saw an increase in revenue and still continues to do well to this day.

Yes the base F2P account is pretty limited but you can with effort unlock whatever you want without a time and because of that I would put it up there to the likes of Aion (which when I played it, it wasnt too bad of a game)

I'm personally hoping for a 60-90 dollar a year payment

I dont understand what people complain about the Microtransactions, as long as they keep the transaction to cosmatics only like armor skins weapon skins Exp boosts etc and nothing like weapons/armor and gear in anyway.
I do also understand the pay to play people im with them but i do love cosmetics for my armors and weapons dyes and stuff like that

What i dont want is the P2W where you buy the game play for free and can buy gear from the store but i dont think they are that stupid.

If it is B2P then I will buy it and play it as much as I can. I'm not a big fan of P2P games because at this point in my life I play when I get a chance to and it sometimes does not occur often. There are weeks where I can play everyday, but there are gaps of months where I can't. I don't want it to be F2P though because that would most likely involve all sorts of microtransactions and that is just bothersome. I hate the F2P games that spam ads for useless crap I'll never buy. It's just annoying.

Posted in another business model thread by me:

Here's the reason why GW2's style of B2P won't work for ESO. Zenimax Online Studios was funded with a $300 million dollar investment. Let's assume that only half of this goes into the actual cost of developing ESO.
150 mil is our base cost for the game, and the bar for which their "break even" point is set. Now, let's assume the game is a huge success and sells 2,000,000 copies at $60 a pop. That's $120,000,000 of profit for an assumed cost of 150,000,000, making a loss of 30 million dollars. And that's assuming only half of their investment money was used, which is unlikely.

Are they supposed to hope that they rake in 30 million dollars in unnessecary cash shop items? Or just tell their investors they aren't making their money back until HOPEFULLY the next retail expansion? Yeah, I don't think so...

this assumed 30,000,000 loss would be made up in one month of a $14.99 sub with the assumed 2,000,000 accounts (and that's assuming a very large playerbase). The game will absolutely not be B2P, you can quote me on that.

Hope it's a subscription model...would love seeing a game that allows me to earn everything ingame without a cash shop selling me a better horse (that glows!!), bigger bank space, and other stuff that I should be able to get by actually playing the game instead of paying EXTRA cash as well as my sub.

This does seem the most logical.

B2P or NO GO for me. They could also put in a ads banner for what I care. but no P2P.

I would rather spend my money $15 every month on all the elder scrolls base game + DLCs and any AAA title than paying a P2P MMO.

i realy hope it will be a normal subscription system like older MMO and you have a good support, new content ...
Tired of the mass of f2p games with a broken comunity.

I hope they are prepared for hacks, cheating ppl, scamming and specialy Bot tools..... for that i would pay more then a normal subcription fee....

Its not really as black and white as some are making out. Both B2P and P2P are clearly viable business options, its not like either is completely destined to fail. It depends how the developers progress the game from that point that defines a games success, not its payment model.

Just look at the pre-orders/initial subscriptions SWTOR had, they had well over a million people invested in the game when everyone knew full well it was going to be a P2P model. They lost subscriptions simply because they couldn't keep people interested.

The reason I would personally go with a P2P model is because I'm strongly against micro-transactions of any kind and a P2P model removes the need for them. Plus like Osarion said, its probably the only viable option considering the budget for the game.

I would be very dissapointed with a F2P model based on micro transactions, or Pay 2 Win, I'm fine with a subscription or B2P. So long as I don't have buy gear and currency with real money.

P2P is the greatest. I'm so sick of seeing the F2P model ruin games. With P2P it keeps away some of the little kids and people who grief just because they are bored and know there is no consequences. It keeps away a greater percent of hackers. Also every F2P game claims that itll add micro transactions that wont effect gameplay but that is lies. I hate micro transactions more than anything.... id rather have a monthly fee and have everything able to be unlocked ingame without have to buy things separately. For thous who like no subscription fees there is always single player games or non-mmos.

I would like P2P but ill meet down the middle and say a bit of both.

How about a monthly sub of €18 and you have access to every single item in the game including all the items in the cash shop(they drop in the world and can only be bough on the A/H but sub members) plus 50% off all expansions as long as you are paying a sub.

Then we can have a B2P option but you do not have access to anything in the cash shop unless you actually pay for it plus you pay full price for any expansions.

I prefer subscription to be honest, but its only going to work if the Devs and customer support is on the ball.

Oh yeah cause WoW's sub really keeps away the griefers and little kids. Sub does not diminish the likelyhood you will run into that sort of stuff. WoW's community is one of the worst. Even with F2P, LotRO's community is still one of the best out there. With almost no spammers to boot (there are some but no where near the likes of what wow sees).


Sub fees will never stop those that hack, cheat, scam or bot. In most cases they just use fake/stolen CCs to do what they want to do.

but it helps to avoid such problems because you have the money to hire the people and get resources to avoid such bad things