The problem is: Somebody stole their sweetroll.

(It's Beth's designer easter egg that things have changed)

Except what really happend was that someone gave them a new, but different sweetroll...something old fans don't seem to grasp, that they still have their sweetroll AND another one, they just don't like the other one as much, fine, but that's no reason to cry since you still have two, which is better than one...

Rule number 1 for TES players:

Don't let your sweetroll turn into an arrow to the knee...

(Sorry, I'll stop with the cliche's now... )

I know. Some forum users come in the SKYRIM section and whine about how it's not like Morrowind or Oblivion. Well damn, go play the other ones if you don't like it.

It's not so much that I necessarily want to be back where Oblivion was (highly flawed), so much as it was still better than where I am now (too frequent, and too boring to want to bother, combined with permanent instructions in a post-modern font stuck in my screen if I'm not a good boy and level RIGHT NOW)

Actualy, the crossbows worked very differently to bows in morrowind. A cross bow was loaded and ready to fire at any time with a single click, with a reload occuring after the shot; where as a bow was unloaded and required you to hold down the button to draw the string, then release the button to fire. While the reload of the crossbow was probably faster than historicaly accurate, I belive this is one of those moments when gameplay overrules realism.

Crossbows would add alot to gameplay as they provide an 'easy to use' marksman weapon that requires less skill to operate than a bow.


I like Skyrim, and I think it's made some good progress. I do also belive that there are alot of features that should have been included, that the game feels a little incomplete without.
Mounted combat being the biggest one. Just feels wrong without it.

I can not understand where the players of today think less is more and better. Are they really that brainwashed by the industry or are the players themselves just as dumbed down as the games are in this new gen.

I have to say the gameplay and darker storylines remind me more of Morrowind. What made me bored of the game after only 2 months was the lack of meaningful content and gameplay IMHO. After about my 3rd character and 400+ hours I was just about yawning with excitement. TES 2011 is a shadow of its former series. I was less fond of Oblivion and didn't get bored of it for almost a year. I tried to like the new system but it is simply LAME!!!

Is Gram talking about spears again? His passion for them is an inspiration as is his completely dynamic defence of the Skyrim features(or lack of), In an almost hypnotic way the main protaganists of the spear debunking & anti attribute brigade are taking it upon themselves to educate the unwashed heathen attribute & spellmaking fan crowd, sometimes in a condesending manner with quick smart answers to everything with a pie chart plotting their lack of intelligence & understanding, If someone feels that a particular feature is missing from Skyrim then let them feel that way, don't take it upon yourself to re-educate them.

Nobody can tell me that Skyrim has all the features of Oblivion that i enjoyed, You can't tell me(well, not me personally) that everything is there in a hidden state or post up a multi page essay telling me that i'm completely wrong & should just svck it up.

Skyrim has bits missing & i'm unable to enjoy certain aspects of it due to erm...Missing bits, Posting up impressive looking stat sheets & using intelligent language debunking every one of the heathen Morrowind/Oblivion's stuck in the pasts opinions just smacks of elitism, Well sort of, Condesending rudeness perhaps.

Let people moan if they like, Can you mix a spell in Skyrim? No.

Anyway, Take it in good humour, I blame Gram personally & his Spear fetish for ruining my brain.

Removing stuff that is bad or poorly implemented = making it better, even if all you do is strip those things...Skyrim does even more than that, it removes poor mechanics and introduces new, better ones, that is why it is superior to every other TES title, even without a lot of the toybox stuff and variety that you could do before.

I personally feel like I realise my character better with the new system, though I would be in favor of a better attribute system.

Spellmaking could have been interesting though I don't really care either way, but I dislike the removal of so many utility spells.

Glad attributes are gone as I can play races I want and not which ones have the better stats for my build, I think there should be spellmaking though even though im not a mage I only ever use basic healing but Id like to be able the create one which heals more health.

one more post.. personally I feel the new system is pretentious. Who are they to tell me my orc can heal right from the start of his ingame ''birth''.
I mean it's the small things that an attribute system really does for me. Orcs aren't know to heal , but Morrowind let me bypass that by picking restoration as major skill , thus starting with a basic heal spell.
Skyrim's system is a limited replayability game , whereas Morrowind and oblivion offers countless variations. I'd say you can get 2 good runs out of skyrim vs alot more in those other games.
meh we can probably argue about this forever, no point really. I disagree with bethesda , you don't.

You had to have people nearby in Oblivion to, however if they was on the other side of an wall they had no chance of detecting you,

I will be lol-ing forever at the sheer amount of absurdity that's in this thread. Thanks for the laughs, guys. And no, no I don't have anything helpful to add. I was quite annoyed enough at trying to explain what's wrong with Destruction to everyone else, much less the game it its entirety.

Someone must make this now. Throw in the giant pink rabbit, too.

I murder someone every time I hear it, too. Then I quip "Let me guess, someone stole your hitpoints?"

I'm cruel like that.

Hey, I take offense to that! I washed this morning! I smell pretty, like a flower. =3

TES V: Skyrim, eunuch of the Elder Scrolls series.

Crossbows had some differences from bows but worked mostly the same way.
Spears had an unique combat style as different from one to two handed.
They had better range than other weapons so you used different tactically.

Throwing weapons was also unique that they did not demand an weapon to fire them, nice if you just used them with poison against bosses.

no hand to hand

no shortswords

and no good reason for their removal.

The really fun part is that there are actually people doing their very best to defend less game.
Less somehow means a better game, less somehow means more replayability, less somehow means more fun.
Its fine that we dont even have a quarter of the apparel slots, its fine we have less than 2% of spells, less than 25% of weapons, because I suppose in their eyes Beth could ship a brick and they would insist it is the best brick they ever played. Attributes are gone, guilds are (mostly) gone they sure dont do anything anymore, lore is reduced to a snippet of the pre-Oblivion era, no spellmaking, no attributes, no classes, no armour degradation, no birthsigns, no NPC disposition, no branching quests, were stuck with the same jump height and run speed the entire game, and somehow, for some inexplicable reason this all adds up to a better game, somehow in some warped way it is better like this.
As if all these completely nonsensical statements werent enough, we can go one step further and insist that removed features are still in the game, even though they are manifestly not.

That is what grinds my gears above all else, the mindless defence of something undefendable, using crooked logic.

Keeping in mind that we all know skyrim is not really as much an RPG, as an action game..there had to be things taken out.

If deep RPG's still sold as much this action game mascarading as an RPG, I think the gripes in this thread would be warranted. They used the time they had to make this game to make it shiny. And they made bank.

In the end, money still wins. Sorry bout our luck.

Yes, but the point is that all those fans of RPG's fled to Bethesda when the rot started.
Bethesda used to be a great vestige, a last bastion, now, its overrun by the mediocre.
The point is that a great RPG could have been made of Skyrim that would have sold excellently, precisely because the fans expect this of Bethesda.

Have you considered that some people like myself actually do not feel we need attributes or artificial classes for the game to allow personalization and see dept in character builds? The Skyrim character development is just as deep as Morrowind and Oblivion, though I am not going to lie and say they were very deep. With the choice of magica/health/stamina each level + the perks I feel my character is more "mine" than having the attribute system of earlier games.

I agree that the removal of many spells and weapons was bad along the lines of removing birthsigns and even though I am indifferent towards spellmaking I understand why people miss it. I also agree that alot of the writting in Skyrim could have been better.

However, those who claim Skyrim lacks RPG features should take a moment and try to see how narrowminded they are and just because "there is no attributes or classes" it still have several of the most important RPG features. Attributes are just a means to an end, which now have been replaced by perks and one stat boost per level.

As well I used to until Oblivion.

There comes a point where the RPG element is overpowering as well. I guess the question is whether we would rather have Bethesda make mistakes in this direction and still have the money to develop top shelf RPGs, or deepen TES again and potentially lose the money with which to expand its legacy.

And I find it amusing that there are people who claim that having a bunch of things that don't work makes a game better, that having clumsy, contrived and counter-intuitive attributes, classes, minor/major skills is better than having seamless and cohesive perks and skills and a straightforward leveling system that let's you play your class the way you want it.

I also find it amusing that people believe that they are true rpg fans because they are devoted fans of Morrowind/Daggerfall, which by no means are any less action-rpg than Skyrim, Fallout 3 or Mass Effect...run around in first-person and use your button controls to jump across obstacles, sidestep enemies and aim and click as much as you can to hit and damage enemies, which is exactly what you do in all of these games. Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are essentially exactly the same type of games, Skyrim simply does the translation from character creation/development to game simulation more seamlessly and with less crippled mechanics to work around.

Explain to me what part Agility had on characters life force please? Agility was used to represent... wait for it... how agile your character was. Meaning bonuses to ranged weapons etc. I read your part on attributes and its so blatantly wrong that honestly, I am not spending the time reading the rest of your post.

I could wall-o-text you, but I'm kinda short on time so I'll just reply on a thing which ticked me the most; spellmaking.
Basically, what you said there is same as saying:
'Derp, so what my [censored] is not 20cm long, but it's 5cm long instead... it's still there!'