I finished the Dark Brotherhood in about 3 levels time.


Then it's dumb to allow us to get to level 81.

I suspect that if people actually sat down and thought about how the game plays, instead of the reflexive "Bethesda hasn't made the game to my specs so they failed" type posts, they'd see that there is no new levelled content after 50 for the simple reason that (and in a dollop of irony, the same people complaining about this are the self-proclaimed "Role Players") any role played character isn't going to get much past 50. Maybe not even to 50.

People seem to want content for their "uber-characters". Sure, you can make an "uber-character", but the game isn't really designed for that.

And you would be completely wrong. "No role played character is going to get past, or even near 50," is about as shallow an argument as you can get.

To get to level 81 you have to get all skills to 100, not really compatible with RPing IMO. You might get past 50 whilst RPing but the higher level you go for the more you'll be trying to level skills that don't really fit your role.
Plus its a long boring grind, more enjoyable to start another character and RP them.

I kinda agree. I am lv50 and does 320 damage with one hit with my glass sword, and I really want to have something to do with him. I've completed the main quest and all guilds and stuff, so there isn't anything left for me... No fancy dragons or anything. No challenges...

Then you're just not imaginative enough. Many races in TES lore live for a very long time, if I am not mistaken. When you have an extended life you have lots of time to learn and practice new things.

I made a Dark Elf, started them slowly through the path of the Assassin and Thief, then came upon a Mage who, at the height of my Stealth prowess and with my blade arm very well practiced... sent me fleeing for my life. This was at level 45. From 45 - 60 I spent time learning magic so that situation would never happen again, because with all my skill to melt into the shadows and tuck my blade into your spine, a fireball could still erase me with ease.

There will never be a higher level cap. The TES games, which level based on your skills advancing (not on "get 10000 xp"), are maxed out when all the skills are at 100. That's it, that's all there will be.



You really have a hard time with the basic concept that the game was balanced around leveling approximately a "class" worth of skills to 100, but they'll allow you to continue to max out all the skills, don't you? I think the only solution would be for it to be like Oblivion (only certain skills level you), since maxing out all skills will never be an intended (vs. allowed) playstyle.

(Of course, letting one level off all skills was likely based off 1. wanting people to be able to switch their focus, if they decide they don't like the "class" they've been playing, and 2. getting rid of the whole "efficient leveling / play your character off non-Major skills" thing from Oblivion. Just goes to show you can't please all the people, all the time.)

You seem to have a really hard time with the basic concept the the game should contain mechanics that adhere to what the player can do, don't you?

You can reach level 81, but there's no monsters that go past 50. That's 31 levels of no PvE content that offers incentive or challenge. That's simple Design 101. Hell, Disgaea allowed players to get level 9,999, but there were still enemies that went past level 7,000.

How is this hard? The majority of the game can be balanced for level 50, but if the player can exceed 50, the game should have some enemies that exceed it as well so people still find a challenge and incentive to play.

One has to really force the issue to get to this "magic" levelk of 81. I don't see what the big fascination is with getting that high. What are you gaining by doing that? Running on a "Space Invaders" mentality of highest score and your initials in the top 10 list?

For me, the levels do not reflect completion in these games. All of my characters are pretty much capped around level 48 or so. That is not "gimping" or holding the character back. It's just specializing. I think that is what the game is geared for.

Then cap the player at 50.

Seriously it's not that hard. If the player is "never meant" to go beyond 50 then why does 51-81 even exist? It's a basic concept in RPGs really, a pretty fundamental one actually.

Maybe if there was content that matched the level the player could achieve it wouldn't simply be this "Space Invader" mentality, because there would be something worth doing past just getting higher numbers. It's really that simple.

And did this take place over centuries or in the short period your character was played in Skyrim?

No, it's not hard. If you specialize your character, then you will be capped at around 50. Besides, what great advantage does a character that is level 81 have over a level 50 character anyway? Other than increased M/H/S bars?

Because I can play Skyrim for centuries in real time? The principle is the same even if I cannot actually physically do it.


No, I will not be capped at 50 because I can still level past 50. I can specialize in all things magic up to 50 but still level because I sold my unused items to merchants or because I was keen on picking locks.

What great advantage does a character over 50 have other than Magicka, Health and Stamina? That's kind of the point I'm making Senor. No content past 50 makes 50 kind of pointless and thus why is it there in the first place if it is ultimately pointless in the game? Getting to 81 has about the same amount of significance as properly aligning your statue on your table correctly in Breezehome. It's ultimately pointless.

Or do it in the game without a lot of wait 24 hours button mashing.

And that is less than fun. Not to mention the game world doesn't change in the least.

I mean, I realize that you can , and will, level because of non controlled non-combat skills, like Speech and Lockpicking. But your character still has the same protection and damage output that he/she had at level 45. Once you get those skills maxed, it doesn't matter if the enemies stop at 50. They are maxed as well.

Again... that's the point. If nothing matters past 50, why am I allowed to go past 50? Going from 50 to 81 is just numbers, no actual incentive other than "high score."

Ok, this is not getting anywhere. I have no issue with the levels getting high and the being "soft capped" at somewhere around 50. I have had characters that got 60, but that was just because I was testing, more than anything.

If there is no difference in 50 and 81. And they stop the enemies at 50...then why is there an issue? Just consider the game to be capped at 50 and let that be it.

Or... instead of the player having to "consider themselves capped," the developers could... y'know, add monsters in that go to level 81. It gives the player a false sense of incentive if they can reach 81 with no challenge or reason to continue. It's like having a chest with a Master Lock on it that only contains an Iron Dagger. Why did I put so much effort into this when I get such a terrible reward? The basic jist of it is, I wasted my time from 50 - 60 because I was chasing something that wasn't even there or worthwhile. That's not good design. Frankly, that's the same principle of the Mass Effect 3 ending.

I can see where he's coming from.

Now, I know RPGs work this way, I'm not complaining... but there just needs to be a lower level cap or something because you just get overpowered. That's the thing for me, anyway. I don't have a problem with quests or exploration cuz I just can't get tired of the scenery. I stop and smell the roses and kill bandits that pose no threat to me.

It's cool don't get me wrong--after all I played so I could work up to this point. But starting a new character reminds me how much fun working at levels was and figuring out enemies' weaknesses just so I could beat them. Now it's point/aim/shoot. With an occasional insta-kill assassinations.

What does that do? If you can do just as much damage at level 50, that you can at level 81, then what is making the enemies higher levels going to accomplish? I guess I just don't understand. So I'll just leave it at this.

This is where I am getting lost. How exactly are you becoming this great "overpowered" being. I mean any more so than any other character.

Take a Mage at 50.
Take a Warrior at 50.
Take an Assassin at 50.

Now take a maxed out player at 81, with the skills of all three.

How is he doing any more damage than any one of the three that capped themselves at 50 by specializing?

I am just using level 50 as a general. We know that some are 45 and some are 60. That is not the point.

Exactly...I use crafting time to slow the pace for me. Gathering ingredients, mining ore, filling gems. NOT just buying them and using on the spot...

I want to add something
I reached level 36 at 90 hours.
Then I ran into a glitch and I went back to level 23 at 40 hours. So I lost 50 hours which just over 2 days play.
Now I up to level 27 at 51 hours.
I half way through the main quest. I have not start civil war quest.

Or looking at it from the other direction, if you put the target at 81, then some fraction of players will claim they feel "forced" to break their RP/character concept/whatever because the game expects you to get to 81/max all skills (and clearly, the game must expect it, since there are targets/achievements/etc up that high). And maxing out everything just doesn't seem to be the developer's intent (even though they allow you to do it if you want.)



(And this is believeable, because there's already people complaining that the game "forces" them to break their characterizations by having the MQ drag you through the intros of the Mage & Thieves' guilds. Heck, there's people complaining that the game makes them break their characterizations by making them be the dragonborn/the game's hero/giving the game a plot at all.)

Because of how Skyrim is constructed, even at level 30 - 40 I can make weapons that can rip apart level 50 monsters thanks to Enchanting, Smithing and Alchemy.

While my damage doesn't go up, my Health can, which means I can survive longer. If I was already destroying monsters because of my equipment at level 30 - 40, gaining all that extra Health isn't exactly going to make me any easier to kill when I'm level 70 or 80, even if I dump all that level 50 - 81 points into Magicka I'm still a freaking god.

You start putting enemies at level 50 - 81 who have more Armor, more Magic Resist, more damage, etc, etc... well now you have a challenge on your hands.

Senor the simple idea is this: either lock the door or put something in the room to interact with, just don't leave it empty. Giving us the means to go to 81 with no challenge is leaving the room completely devoid of content. If everything stops at 50 then lock the door on the player in the first place.

Again, it's a false sense of incentive to present the player with a "high score" that is ultimately meaningless.


There's a simple way to deal with that: Nothing important to the "main" quests or guilds, the attention getters, would ever be at a certain level. Final Fantasy does this all the time. The main quest villains can be defeated at level 50 - 60ish, however there are some special enemies that require you to be beyond 60 to deal with but they are never part of the "main" game. Alduin, for instance, should never be set at level 81 because some players never want to go past 50. Alduin also should not be set at level 50 because some players want to go past 50. He should be scaled to the player, always, no matter what level the player is. Other monsters can easily do the same. Hell, you could set it so that no monsters are past 50 unless the player is past 50 so that players never feel like they have to go past a certain point if they do not wish to.


Yes, and those people (I feel) have no place talking about what should and should not happen in video game RPGs. Not being the Dragonborn is fine in PnP RPGs but for video games you have to set a structure down, period.