i
Why should it? If you want Daedric weapons, go up the heavy side of the tree. It's a heavy weapon. You can still find and upgrade Daedric items, you just can't craft them.

Overall, I feel the perk system limits character development and individuality, but Bethesda seemed focused on doing perks, and I can't think of any other way they could have done it.

All I have to say is "LOL" when I read

Intensive purpose ?

Seriously ?

LOL.

Wow. And you actually tried to use commas in a smart way.

So can light armor wearers. So can mages. So can anyone who has invested in the skill tree. Smithing doesn't have to mean what you are wearing.

It's simple really. If you want a certain perk, you have to go up the skill tree, not down from another branch. You want to craft and improve daedric weapons or armor, you need to invest in the heavy smithing branch.

This thread is STILL going on?

[censored], people will continuously cry about anything that doesn't fit their own personal mold of what they think this game is supposed to be.

It's about specializing in what armor type you'd rather use, that's all it is. You are either someone who rocks the Light Armor skill, or someone who rocks the Heavy Armor skill. But nothing is stopping you from deciding that you can spec on both sides of the tree.

And it's pretty damned self-evident how the perk trees work in terms of direction of development.

One of the things about the perk trees is this: It's about tradeoffs in regards to what abilities you want to have. And you can always create a new character and try out something different. Options! Choice!

Stop. Crying.

Hey, does this more or less solves the problem you guys are discussing for so long?
http://i40.tinypic.com/2af08jq.png

Wow, this thread is just going in circles. It is really pretty simple. The way it is currently designed, logic dictates you cannot acquire a perk without purchasing the ones connected directly below. With that said, it also never clearly tells you exactly how the system works, which will lead to some people making mistakes if their thought process does not align itself with that of the developers.

Both sides have valid arguments, simple.

This thread made me lol. People will always find something to whine about, I guess

Seeing as it's pretty much impossible to contribute a meaningful post to such a wacky topic, I'll leave it with this



It's affect not effect

I tested your previous statement on damage/speed/stamina. My gap was a bit larger than yours on damage, although small was 7. But the stamina use and speed vs my warriors daedric weapon was literally identical, both war axes.

Keep in mind the upgraded daedric with no perk would still end up with them being inferior to the improved glass. I do admit that the gap is small enough that I can rest easier. Think some of my frustration with this is the perk system itself. I still think that the tree needs reworking regardless.

come on? you know it is the top of the tree there is absolutly nothing to suggests you can go in a circular path, that is far from the way a skill tree works

You can just go for dragonscale as light, and take the heavy side of the tree. It's bad design that screws over anyone who wants to wear glass or other light armors along the way, but at least you can still get the best light armor with the best weapons without going through the whole tree.

I don't think that perk trees have any place in an Elder Scrolls game. I usually associate perk trees with MMOs, where you choose from a predetermined character class, and your perks will shoehorn you further into that role.

That's what it feels like Skyrim's new perk system is doing: shoehorning players into builds that the game deems valid.

But it's still connected. That confuses people too much; it needs to be in a straight line.

I agree. Like I said, I was against it as well. Has no place here. What they could have done was do their old system but do more frequent bonuses. So for instance every 10 levels instead of 25. That is for another discussion though. Was merely trying to stay closer to the topic, though the OP is still slightly different than the current state anyways.

Personally, the skill progression made sense to me. I see smithing as less of a light/heavy armor discussion, because each of those have their own perk trees. I look at the Smithing tree on its own; i.e. what can I smith next? If I can't wear it, I sell it. I use light armor pretty much exclusively, so when I smith a metric crapton of Dwarven items, I sell them. Also, the perk prerequisites alternate between light and heavy armors, and since I focused pretty heavily on smithing, I got to see them light up one by one. I can see how it would be frustrating for someone who doesn't want to focus on the skill, but in the same vein, those who don't focus on the skill don't get the best perks. I can find high level armors through looting or shops, but if I want to make that armor at will, I should invest in the skill. Just my 2 cents' worth.

:ahhh:

Of course it is like that. That is about creating a character and making decisions. That is your own fault, not the tree at all. It was purposely designed like that.

The highest requirement to loop back around would be Dragon. :rolleyes:

OP is right: for visual clarification, the unrelated perks shouldn't be connected.

Everyone against is right: Progression of skills doesn't usually require back-tracking.

E.L.E.

Think of all the real-world problems we could solve if everyone put this much heart and energy into everything they did.

That's why the ability to "save game" is there. As a rule for any game I play, before I would make a choice like this one, I always save the game if I can, just in case.

so u are saying u want to be a master blacksmith without having any skills in either heavy or light?

i think if u wanna be a master u should be skilled at everything not just 1 tier.

It is not a bad design, and I will continue to state so.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the character development and individuality.

I think that forcing you to actually make choices, and not just mindlessly leveling up all skills, and getting all perks (as is the case with Oblivion) only enhances character development and individuality, by making you pick and choose what elements actually make your character.

Except there are no predetermined classes in Skyrim, and you can still do any combination of skills that you choose.

There are no pre-determined builds. The "builds" are no more pre-determined than they were in Morrowind or Oblivion where all the skills were divided up into "Combat", "Magic", and "Stealth".

This was kind of why they went with the addition of the perk system. The idea is that what "class" your character is, is defined by how you specialize your character, rather than some predetermined skillset that could ultimately feel limiting because it includes usage of a skill you personally don't care for.

Basically, the way you play is what naturally evolves your character, because you will be more inclined to choose perks that emphasize and benefit your play style.

I'm really enjoying the way it contributes to how I grow my character as I continue to progress and increase in level.

Unrelated perks aren't connected.

Daedric is connected to Dragon, which is connected to Glass, because both Glass and Daedric are pre-requisites that lead into Dragon. Glass and Daedric are both connected to Dragon, thus they are connected by line.