Because its a different type of armor maybe.....

I honestly cannot see how people are defending this crap. a 5 year old could tell you that this skill tree is fine.

Also makes no sense why someone with no experience crafting heavy metals and ebony could suddenly craft Daedric weapons and armor from no previous experience

The OP basically begins with a thinly veiled insult to people who play on consoles and then proceeds to whinge because he has to work his way up the heavy armor smithing tree.

Personally, I can actually see how you might have thought it would be possible to go from dragon to daedric but I still think you're making too big of a deal about it. If you're only at level 45 then you can definitely still work your way up the heavy armor line. If you don't think it's worth it to do that, then don't do it. You have already acknowledged that it is a valid design decision to make the sides of the tree separate so now you only have to choose whether or not it's worth it to have both.

If you keep playing, you will eventually reach a point where the light armors reach the cap anyways so daedric armor is really not a make or break thing.

I'm still seeing people think this is about armor... I am about done with this topic. Its about the weapons. WEAPONS ffs. Why on earth would a light armor wearing individual want heavy armor unless they were way way into the game and leveling heavy just for kicks? I think people are not reading the whole thread. Also might want to look at the "light" armor side of the tree for a minute... A certain perk named advanced armors... Completely flattens the argument that we couldn't switch to "heavy" because right in the middle of the light tree is a bloody heavy armor...

Just face it, the tree was designed poorly. It could have been structured to focus on your characters needs while still making you separate from other smiths. As it stands, a long term investment for a light armor user would point them down the heavy tree. This way at endgame they can have the best weapons and armor for themselves with no wasted perks. This is a terrible design. We CAN still get everything, but why do we need to wait till lv 100 to use crafted armor or waste perks on eventually useless functions?

The only skill tree that is shaped like this? Really?
How about Block, Alchemy, Conjuration, Enchanting, ...

you can't have everything (or you'll have to invest heavily), deal with it

seriously, the retardedness on these forums is getting out of hand

I was going to post something constructive, but then this happened.

This game requires you to either do research before you spend perk points, or you can just examine the trees before placing your points. Also, you can stockpile your points up, and make your decisions later since the only thing you have to do is pick where you want your enhancement perk to go (magicka, health or stamina). All other perks can wait.

It is unreasonable to think that after being able to craft light armor all the way up to Dragonplate/Dragonscale, that you would all of a sudden be able to craft Daedric weapons and/or armor without prior experience in this type of smithing. Yes, it's not entirely fair that the best weapons are in this perk, and you have no way of having these weapons unless you go the heavy armor route, but you need the experience to be able to make them. Also, looking at tree, the line goes down slightly, which should indicate to you that it is not possible to take that perk after having taken the Dragon perk. Perks are designed to be taken going up, or to the side, not down.

Also, take a look at the pictures of the constellations. The smithing is an anvil, so in order to rearrange the perk tree into something along the lines of having separate armor type crafting, and make another section for weapons, they will probably need to make a new picture (say, an axe, or a warhammer, for example). It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to make a separate branch for weapon smithing, so you could learn ebony weapons and then move on to daedric, but not have access to the armors unless you go the heavy armor route.

This is all coming from a person who went the heavy armor route and took the mage stone. I wore some light armor, or cloth robes the entire time until I've made it to the top of Dragonscale armor. After looking at the tree I noticed that this is how it worked. I wanted to have access to Daedric weapons and armor when it came time to level those skills, so I suffered a little and didn't put perks into the light armor tree, even though I wore some of that armor. All these trees take is a little research, perhaps saving some perk points, and then spending them when you're ready. No need to be upset because you didn't look at the "big picture" or pay attention to how this might possibly affect you in your future game play.

Besides, depending on where you are spending your perk points otherwise, just go up the tree and craft your weapons. There is a lot of leveling to be done in the game, and if you want the best armor and weapons, essentially, you have to spend the points to get what you want.

I had absolutely no problems deducing that the Smithing tree had 2 paths that were separate, and not connected.

Don't blame the game because of your own user error.

Yes it is reasonable. You have Glass weapons on the Light side of the tree, which is the "light armor" equivalent to Daedric - it is lighter and strikes faster. Daedric is heavier and slower, which is appropriate for the heavy armor users.

If you want to use Daedric weapons, you can still use them. You just cannot create them.

This is why I LOVED the perk system for Smithing. It forces you down on one path but you can choose which path. I personally went for the heavy armor tree because I was being a real scrub and crafted eight million iron daggers to get it to 100. Either way, for me, all I wanted was Dragon Scale and a Legendary Daedric Sword so all roads lead to Dragon Armor.

You can have a choice but you have to invest everything to get all. If you could craft everything from the moment you hit 100, what fun would that be?

Not a very good indicator. The skill trees left 2 common questions before the game was released.

1. Do you need both sides of a tree to take the end perk
2. Can you go down after you went up the other side.

This is not something that should have to be answered via experimentation but through obvious cues in the design of the perk tree. Given how common these questions were before it was released this storm of 20/20 hindsight its obvious comments seems a bit off to me.

PC users, please give your suggestions here:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1291686-req-smithing-overhaul/

To help us improve the tree in a mod.

So you are saying, that unlike every other skill tree that only allows you to go UP, Smithing was going to be somehow different? Because the two sides ENDED on the same perk? It doesn't have to be answered via experimentation and it gave you obvious clues, people need to use common sense and a sprinkle of logic.

Again, I don't understand how anyone could actually have thought that you could go back down the other side when you were done.

Wow, OP and everyone who has a problem with smithing are really a joke

The reason you see those lines in the background is because they designed the perk system's graphics based on constellations.

If we followed those lines, then you would need Daedric AND glass to unlock Dragon; since it shows both sides going up to it. If that was the case (which would svck) then you would still have to upgrade both sides for your precious GLASS and Daedric.

Sorry but you are fools, the only one who is mistaken is OP for not understanding how the system works. gamesas made the right choice. Heavy is better, it weighs more too. You don't get the best weapon and the best light armor by just hitting dragon and skipping the rest.

Sorry, but be glad light even gets dragon and heavy can unlock dragon too; they could of made it so you needed BOTH to just get dragon if they truly went with the lines.

That's your fault.

What other perk tree in the game allows you to perk "down"?

No, it doesn't.

The reason you see those lines in the background is because they designed the perk system's graphics based on constellations.

If we followed those lines, then you would need Daedric AND glass to unlock Dragon; since it shows both sides going up to it. If that was the case (which would svck) then you would still have to upgrade both sides for your precious GLASS and Daedric.

for not understanding how the system works. gamesas made the right choice. Heavy is better, it weighs more too. You don't get the best weapon and the best light armor by just hitting dragon and skipping the rest.

Sorry, but be glad light even gets dragon and heavy can unlock dragon too; they could of made it so you needed BOTH to just get dragon if they truly went with the lines.

Tons of people did which is why it was a common question before the game was released. Just because you thought it was obvious does not mean it was obvious. all it means is your thought process worked in a similar fashion to the person who designed it. The fact is there were no cues at all. you saw lines connecting it, and it went up, but any directional cues or text explaining how the trees worked were absent. I suspect if it could go down half the people or more who say this is obvious would say its obvious you could go down the other side that is why there is a line connecting it.

ok

Or they could have split Dragon Scale and Dragon Plate accordingly

They will probably add dragon weapons later on, so regardless dragon will be the best of both worlds for light and heavy (it should also become medium armor lol)

It doesn't.

You can still use Ebony and Daedric weaponry just as well as anyone else. The same way that as Heavy Armor, I can still use Glass Weapons.

You just can't create Ebony and Daedric weapons without the perk, just like I cannot create Glass weapons. Just how it should be.

If you're going the heavy route, getting to dragon isn't even necessary since Daedric is still the best Heavy Armor in the game, and only requires 80 skill and fewer perks to make.

If you were going light, you have to spend more time smithing to get Dragon, which is only the best armor under the Light category.

IMO, the Smithing tree could have been better thought out.

A light armor user should invest no points in the light tree of smithing but instead should go ONLY into heavy in order to ensure the best outcome for themselves in the end for both armor and weapons. Yes.... Yes it does need to be scrapped.


And why would you want glass weapons that are weaker than the items in heavy exactly? lol

I have a poll on what you decision should mean and i used this specific tree as an example. Let the forums speak.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1294045-decision-decisions/page__gopid__19499095#entry19499095