Dragon Age: Origins was a great game. It wasn't really old school, but it was still a great game. Dragon Age II, while if played without knowing the existence of Origins is a fine way to kill some time, is absolutely decimated in terms of worth (in nearly every category) by Origins.

I played Morrowind for a little over an hour and I could not get into it. Different strokes I guess, but I did get grabbed by the story. The combat was simply too bad to use after playing better combat-oriented rpgs to enjoy it. Had I played it before those, I'd probably be one of those Morrowind disciple that defend the title to the death.

Mass Effect (3, but the trilogy altogether is how they all truly shine) is probably the best game I have ever played in terms of story, character story, and relationships. Until after you are and the ending breaks plot holes and storytelling devices used since the beginning. Still, I found some security in the ending after havign read the Indoctrination Theory, explaining -- well read it yourself if you are interested in it.

Auto-Dialogue? Ignoring lore? There was minor exploration because there was a Reaper war going on so I understand that one, but when (aside from the last 10 minutes) is the lore ignored in ME3? And auto-dialogue was a choice that you can put on in the game settings to make it quicker to play.

I'm sure people said this, but from a quality standpoint we got something for the trade off. Though Daggerfall was extremely large and probably very hardcoe RPG, it was basically all randomly generated so that there wasn't really much to do or see. At least with Morrowind we got our first handcrafted, fully-realized and open world. So even if it wasn't as large as Daggerfall's was, the actual countryside was more interesting and meaningful. I feel that since Morrowind we've been shedding the RPG elements and depth/quality of the writing, characterization, and storylines in return for things I really don't care about - shinier graphics, fully voiced dialogue, and dragons. Dragons especially were a stupid idea because they became bigger, even more obnoxious cliff racers because now they can appear literally anywhere and accidentally wipe out your favorite shopkeeper in your favorite town. Plus, all of the work and breakthroughs done for them will be hard to 'carry over' into the next game since dragons will presumably all be gone and all of the time/resources/energy that went into developing dragons won't have a shelf life beyond the last Skyrim DLC, probably.

Video games now want to be movies when they used to be content to be games. I played the ME3 demo and it seemed that for 90% of it I was watching the action, not doing anything interactive. Lots of fancy 3d visuals, not much game. ME1 was more game (but with cut scenes), ME2 started the transition to film, ME4 will be an actual movie (literally - there's a movie in the pipeline).

I used to like reading comic books (I still do), and now Hollywood keeps producing comic book movies. Why? Why the genre crossover? I like graphic art, why would I want to see Batman on a cinema screen when I can read The Dark Knight and enjoy Frank Miller's artwork? Do something else for a film, something original. When I play a video game I want it to be a game, not a 'cinematic experience'.

The problem is, of course, not with the artists, writers, and designers but with the suits. The producers/publishers. The money men. The artists patrons. They are the ones afraid to take a risk, thinking only of short-term profit, and they slowly take over an industry with buyouts, every industry, and homogenise it. It's corporate communism. You have consumer 'choice', but in the end it's a choice from one big store selling similar products with a different wrapper.

Th only solution, if you enjoy originality and innovation, is to support indie developers who are doing their own thing for love on a shoestring budget; before they get noticed, bought out and controlled.

Auto-dialog wasn't a choice, even on full RPG settings, about 2/5ths of Shepard's responses were auto-dialog. Compared to 1/8th in Mass Effect 2, and 0% in Mass Effect 1.

As for ignoring lore, most of it does happen in the last 10 minutes, it's such a staggeringly large amount, that the only way to really save the ending, short of removing it, is if Indoctrination Theory pans out as the intent of Bioware the whole time. "Ignoring Lore" in Mass Effect 2 actually started with just one instance, the whole Thermal Sink think, aside from being impossible in thermodynamics, the idea that "Future weapons" never run out of ammo was a defining trait of Mass Effect tech... I understand it from a gameplay perspective, and even like the change, but I still call it out on totally flopping the writing part of the change.

Tying it in to Skyrim though, it's just an example of writing yourself into a corner, which is always a bad idea, even outside gaming. So I don't really fault Elder Scrolls for doing some cop out maneuvers (Warp in the West comes to mind, as does the ambiguous disappearance of the Neravarine and Vivec).


I disagree with this particular bit for two major reasons. First of all, experience is never wasted. Lessons learned in developing dragons can be applied elsewhere to continue giving us enemies that aren't simply humanoid-size. Secondly, the life of an individual Elder Scrolls game is as long as individual franchises such as Battlefield of Duty: Call of Warfare 1234. Though, I do partially agree, they need to scale dragon count back. You can always go and find a dragon at a nest or word-wall if you really want to fight one, random dragons need to happen a bit less frequently. (They're triggered by game days past, if you don't fast travel or wait, they spawn MUCH less frequently)

Quality of writing and characterization... in TES? When? Goofier and cartoonier mabey but not of higher literary quality.... the standards and quality since Morrowind havnt really changed...

I think the level of writing might stick out a litle more now than in the past in contrast to the graphics...

You have a narrow view. Writing quality and characterization for Morrowind refers to giving the world character. This is where Morrowind's writing was a strength, because it developed the province as it's own "Entity", and because they avoid touching the player character in the same way, RP'ers had much more options in what content they found compelling enough to do.

Maybe it's just a bias from being introduced to ES with Morrowind, but that set the precedence of Elder Scrolls writing for me. Intentionally obtuse player character development, with extremely detailed world development.

"Is money really that important to those companies(who obviously, not all the time listen to their customers )"
It always was and always will be. Have you seen any single poll about some decision they had to make, like options to Toggle Kill Cams Yes or No?, Spellmaking Yes or No?

Games and films share a lot of the same problems as art. Because they're so expensive, and such a collaborative effort, if the artists want to continue making the art, they have to essentially "Be sponsored", which means making some decisions with a bit more business-oriented mindset.

There's a new thing happening though, where games are being funded by donations (Kickstarter), the latest of which just secured the required funding to broaden the team, to include Chris Avellone. That game, is Wasteland 2. (Fallout fans rejoice!)

I'd buy another Elder Scrolls game with Oblivion graphics if it had great RPG mechanics. I mean does making a tree look realistic really trump quality questlines?

So is it also the consumers fault that pesticides are used on fruit?

Unfortunatly its a case of what ever sells.... This is a good hint that the age of RPG's is coming to an end.. and a new era is rising.. An era of..of..Adventure? <— yup, the unfortunate truth that soon will be made a reality. Unless of course people stob buying into the action/adventure genres... Like that will ever happen..

There was a lot to see and do in Daggerfall, because things are randomly generated doesn't mean it's less to see. Daggerfall was a better RPG game then Morrowind, more choices, more consequences and a better character creation system. Morrowind was seen as a dumbed down version of Daggerfall when it was released, the only trade off we got for removal of options etc was 3D graphics. And that was what also made Morrowind so easy to forgive on the rest of the streamlining it did. Morrowind started in some parts the shredding of RPG elements by simplifying character creation, by having less choices, less harsh consequences etc. Morrowind was still a good RPG, it was however a simplified version of Daggerfall with shinier graphic. And the updated graphic was what also made it such a hit.

Dragons in Skyrim is an area open for improvement, NPC's should run and hide not try to fight it that's for sure. Fighting it is for guards to do. Of course if there is no where to hide they should fight for their life. The thing that Dragon can attack anywhere is my favorite part of them, it makes sense that they will harass the people living there. The bad part is NPC's seems to think they can take on dragons without proper tools...

If anything, Skyrim has had a plethora of more content in it's RPG aspect. I couldn't say the same for Dragon Age 2 though.

You want to know the reason DA:2 was worse than DA:O? Because in DA:O, EA didn't help develop it. In DA:2, EA hopped on the train, and they made the worst RPG/Adventure/Hack&Slash in the history of this planet.

DA2 is quite possibly the best way to describe how you can butcher a promising game series... >.<

ME3 proved that EA BioWare had lost it's touch with what was a RPG and not...

Funny enough SWTOR is a great singleplayer RPG, too bad it is supposed to be a MMORPG

Todd may claim these games are art all he likes, but the truth is Bethesda seems to lack the dedication to truly be an artist. An artist would never compromise their work for profit, Beth clearly is.
Morrowind felt true to itself, so did New Vegas. Can't say the others really did, though Oblivion's Thieves Guild and Shivering Isles deserve recognition.

EA make the worst everything.

They're the bane of gaming society.

Since when did art have to follow a set of rules?

Also, who made you Emperor of the Artistic Validation board?

Every game on the planet is art, even ones not intending to be in any form. Sort of like how the Cave Paintings in France were originally only to track herds of game animals on migrations.

What is seen today as an "Attempt to make as much money" these days, will be seen in a few decades, the same way as Lascaux cave walls are seen today. Inspired necessity.

Bioware is fine. They did absolutely nothing wrong with the DA:2 video game.

The only reason that game was bad is because EA was helping Bioware.

EA was helping Bioware.

That's the problem right there. In fact, on most gaming sites you find, or youtube video reviews, you'll find that EA has been voted the #1 WORST gaming company of 2011. I can't wait for them to take the spotlight in 2012.

EA is the worst gaming company full stop. Nothing they've done in recent history has been any good. Each time they take over a franchise its stripped out and killed.

They're almost like an auto-dismantler. Stripping games of parts for cash...

Added as a friend. We obviously share the same hatred for EA games.

Did you know that EA ALMOST got access to develop Borderlands 2? It made me shiver, but I begged for it not to happen. :l

I felt Oblivion had a good mix of appealing to nubs but still having enough material for old timers. Sure a few things could stand to be fixed or streamlined, but I felt it was the last true TES game. Which is why I play Oblivion more

By that argument, literally everything is art. Right down to Duke Nukem forever.
No, it doesn't work like that. Even if we were to accept your definition and statement, then being titled as "art" loses all value.
My point is that there are some games that feel like somebody had a vision, was passionate about bringing it to life and did their damnedest to make it come alive, and there are other games that feel like they were made simply because someone got paid to make it and nothing more. I don't believe Skyrim falls into the first category.

^

A video game is the definition of a compilation of keyframes, actionscript coding, and Storyboarding. In the storyboarding aspect, art is almost always required to make a rough copy of what the original will look like.

Therefore, the person you quoted was right. A game may not ENTIRELY be art, but it is mostly focused around that concept.

Yes, it does work like that. If anything, applying rules to art devalues the creative possibilities.


Why is storyboarding art, but coding isn't? I don't understand where the line is drawn between someone who pens actions in ink, and one who pens it in C++.