Hmm, no, you missed my point.

My point is that Bethesda is capable of giving all three platforms the same capabilities, regardless of what each one is technically able to do. They don't have to give extra, or bonus, or additional content to any one platform at all. This exact equal state would be the "all things being equal" that represents non-bias.

Any deviation from that, including Modding Tools, High Res Packs, and Kinect Support, are all examples of bias. Why? Because Bethesda did not have to implement them at all, and in doing so they have increased the functionality of a single version of their game to the exclusion of the other two.

I'm not saying it's bad. But at least call it what it is. It's a Bias in favor of one platform, because the others don't get that content. It has nothing to do with the fact that the other two can't support that feature, because there are lots of features that all three platforms could support. Choosing to implement one of those features would be non-bias. Choosing to implement the exclusive feature is bias.

Please tell me I have explained that more adequately.

No, it's not bias. You paid for the game to play it on your platform. I paid for it on mine (I don't have a powerful enough PC so I'm using the Xbox... but I'm not complaining that they have mods... they always have! And I used to take advantage of it when I used to be a PC gamer). Equality is not necessary in this situation and it's silly to think so. The PC is a keg cooler, the Xbox is a cooler that can hold a suitcase of beer, and the PS3 is a small cooler than can hold a twelve pack. Right away, we already know we aren't going to be able to fit a keg into our coolers. But if you're complaining to Budweiser because you can only fit twelve beers into yours while I can fit twenty-four into mine and you spent the same amount for your suitcase as I did mine, you're not making any sense. You're making even less sense if you accuse the makers of my cooler of paying off Budweiser because all twenty-four beers fit in mine whereas only twelve fit into yours.

PS3 doesn't have the Kinect... the Kinect already had the API for it. PS3 doesn't allow for mods... the PC does. PS3's version is an Xbox port, just like all of the multi-platform games. It's Sony people!

Eh, I love the interface. Sleek, easy to navigate your inventory and provides us with a great view of our items. That said, I don't dump everything I own into one chest

You seem to be confusing two issues.

On the one hand, you have three platforms, each of which has different capabilities. We all know this.
On the other hand, you have a game, which may or may not take advantage of those capabilities.


The point is, a completely non-biased game would be one that does not take advantage of any exclusive capabilities. Thus, the games for each platform would be nearly identical (barring technical variation such as the icons for the game buttons, or the service provided for updates).

Just because a platform is capable of supporting a feature does not automatically mean that every game for that platform should have that feature. Not every 360 game supports the Kinect. Not every PC game has modding tools. Because of this, it is possible to make a game that is substantially identical on all three platforms. That would be non-bias.

Any decision to make some content exclusive, is a bias. It's that simple. Given two options:

• Make the games equal.
  
• Make the games not equal.

Bethesda chose "not equal." That's bias.
Again, I'm not saying it's bad. It makes perfect sense. However, it is bias.

Your beer example doesn't make any sense to me. In it, we all three bought different coolers. That's not the case with Skyrim. We bought the same game, did we not?

To be honest it seems they could easily added this to the other formats. There are only 3 sort options, name, weight, and value. These could easily be added as buttons to the right of the list that you could flick over to with the stick or click on with the mouse. Not sure why they didn't do it but maybe they will in a future patch. It's not that massive of a deal for all this arguing to be taking place. I barely use it. The more exciting features of the Kinect addition to me are the ability to quickly switch spells and weapons without having to open menus, using dragon shouts without going to the menu every time I want to use a new one, quick use of potions, and the Quick Save/New Save option that saves me from opening the menu all the time interrupting game play. The sorting is ok but nothing to go crazy over.

In my anology, Budweiser is Bethesda and the beer is Skyrim. The different coolers and how much beer they can hold represent the different plaforms and their capabilities.

Ok, so then to support your anology, I'll say this:

In your anology, non-bias would be for Budweiser to sell a 12 pack to everyone. Simple as that.
Just because I own a Kegerator doesn't mean I'm obligated to always buy a Keg. If Bud wanted everyone to be on equal terms, they could easily do that.

However, they sold me a Keg and you a 12-pack. That's bias. Especially since they charged us both the same price.
Again, it's not bad. It's good business. But it's also bias.



Remember, the capability of the platform is irrelevant to whether or not the games are equal.

Actually, Xbox users without Kinect go to the back of the bus along with PS3 users. Kinect users get inventory sort while PC users can use SkyUI. Everybody else gets the shaft.

They still get an entire expansion first.

I am the only one who would feel pretty ridiculous shouting "SORT BY WEIGHT" into a microphone? I'd much rather use a command on the controller...

It is almost as if Bethesda purposely left the feature out and then added it to Kinect only....Hmmm....

Why these aren't buttons baffles me. I can't think of any reason they couldn't just add little boxes at the top of the inventory stack that sort by [thing].
I'm not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories, but I can say that it's patently obscure to me.

That might be possible. I'm not usually fond of the "big corporations marketing schemes to make more money omg", but why they would only add sorting options with Kinect puzzles me. There are enough. uttins on a controller to do it, I DO know that.

Edit: Wow. I got ninja'd pretty hard by Varus right there.

Check my signature.

It was just a poorly designed interface in the first place. There's absolutely no reason they couldn't have designed an interface that included those features from the start.

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but there's also no reason at all these voice commands couldn't be implemented on the PC, as well. Aside from the fact that there is a PC version of the Kinect, ultimately it's just a talking into a microphone and any PC can have one of those.

So does the PS3. So does the 360, actually, without the Kinect.

However, my (novice) understanding is that the voice recognition wasn't programmed by Bethesda, and is actually native to the Kinect. So it may actually be that PS3 and PC don't ever get the voice recognition part of it.

Which is fine, since all I'm really interested in is the sorting option, which should be a menu function entirely separate from voice recognition algorithms.

As a 360 user without the Kinect, I have absolutely no interest in voice commands. I'll take the real commands that you get from the command console (which we unfortunately don't have) over those Kinect voice stuff any day of the week. I don't understand the excitement from some of the other 360 users over this feature. Also, I don't know about Morrowind, but I know in Oblivion you could sort items by value and weight with UI buttons. I liked the Oblivion UI as a whole much more anyway.

As for the dlc, big deal. We get to beta test it on the 360 without user mod patches or even access the command console to help us out. I personally am not going to be beta testing this dlc, and instead will wait until it seems to be free of major bugs.

Well, that's why I have SkyUI installed. It gives me those sorting options.

This was exactly how I felt when I read the two comments you responded too. And I agree completely, and people just have to deal with the fact that its not fair because Microsoft has the cash to throw around whenever they want to do whatever they want. If Bethesda ignored these offers they wouldn't make as much money, and PC has the creation kit. I would kill for the ability to mod on Skyrim and Fallout with the X-box or PS3.

Well, a few things. First, that is what many people call selling out. They decided to give preferential treatment to one platform over another for the sake of lining their pocket with extra cash. You might call it business, others might call it a lack of integrity.

Second, the Creation Kit. There's a few things you need to keep in mind about that. Bethesda has been releasing modding tools since at least Morrowind. It has become one of the major draws for the series. On the PC, at least. They've even stated that, as an offline game, the modding community is their community. To not release it would have been veritable suicide. Sure, a lot of people would have bought it, but not as many. And it wouldn't last as long as the PC. I suspect that due to the modding tools, people will be playing the PC version much longer than most console gamers.

The other thing about the Creation Kit is this: you act as if releasing those tools was doing us a big favor. It might be, but you ignore that doing so is in Bethesda's best interest. People that have been with the series a while can sit back and point out which mods they've ripped off and added to the next installment of their games. Bethesda consists of a hundred or so people, working with a time limit and a budget. The modding community consists of tens of thousands at least, with no time limit or budget. That makes for a rich field of ideas to harvest. Ideas that they can use to make the next game better.

This! I have often wondered the same thing about the HUD. They went to all the trouble to design the status bars so they would be invisible when not in use to cut down on screen clutter and increase immersion, but they gave us no way to get rid of all the other screen clutter like the PipBoy compass and sneak crosshair without loosing the "invisible" status bars that they worked so hard on. None of it makes any sense.

Bethesda's "bias" against consoles (to the extent that you can call it a "bias") is that they assume that simple issues with the game, like an immersive HUD and sorting inventory by weight, etc. etc., will be solved by mods and tinkering with the ini file. Bethesda seems to give no thought to the fact that the millions of players who play on console don't have access to such things. The lack of such basic options like the ability to customize the HUD and sort inventory by weight is nothing short of baffling.

I'd kill just to be able to sort alphabetically. Inventory management was better in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

Who exactly did they sell out? Selling out implies that, by accepting money, you harmed someone.
What harm is there to PS3 users and PC users who get downloadable content 30 days late?

Not only that, but 360 users aren't getting their exclusivity for free, you know. They paid for that option. So, would you consider buying a collector's edition selling out? That person is, after all, paying more and getting more than you or I.

It's about showing favoritism to one platform over the others. And how did they pay for it? Did the 360 version of the game cost more? Or did somehow buying the 360 in the first place count as paying for it? Even though that purchase had nothing to do with Skyrim?