I know you're joking. But for those who actually believe this... why in the world would you think that Bethesda would deliberately alienate a large chunk of their client base? If it were in there, Microsoft wouldn't lose anything if they'd left it. The draw for the Kinect is having voice commands instead of using the control for things like that. It still wouldn't be redundant and, therefore, make the Kinect useless. I'll bet that some patch or DLC along the way will give the PS3 the ability to sort inventory with a button click... then what? Xbox/Kinect users will still be able to use the voice commands to do this over clicking buttons. The heart of the complaint is that Xbox/Kinect owners are getting something that works with thier hardware that Sony doesn't have and you'll just return to that argument if you get the "sort" button.

Let me put it to you this way, in order for Bethesda to even bring PS3 gamers the game for their platform, they had to take some stuff out that their hardware couldn't handle. In order for them to bring it to the Xbox, they had to take some stuff out that the Xbox couldn't handle. Sounds fair to me. At least you have a game to play. If you want "equality", then PS3 would have never had Skyrim to begin with.

I'm not sure when it exactly happened, but Beth has really lost its way.

No, I can afford it fine. I just don't want it. The notion of speaking out loud to an inanimate object makes me shudder. Prancing around the room instead of using a proper controller is even worse. I just don't want it. When I paid my 60 gold for this game, it had absolutely nothing to do with Kinect. This is not what I signed up for. But even so, I don't mind a bit if the Kinect crowd get some love from Bethesda in Skyrim. That's fine. What makes me seethe with rage is that Bethesda added functionality that can only be accessed with the casualware gadget. If they maintain parity between the controller-only crowd and the Kinect crowd, I have no problems. But don't ignore those of us who refuse to buy into Kinect. That's where the 2nd-class citizen hyperbole came in. As I said already (browse the thread a bit more carefully), in no way do I compare my plight to the much more serious civil-rights issues of the past.

I would disagree with that. If I make the best 360 game possible, the best PS3 game possible, and the best PC game possible, how is that bias? I do all I can for all three systems, but I can't make the 360 or PS3 more powerful than they are.

You said it yourself, the three systems have different capabilities. The PC is more powerful than the PS3 which is more powerful than the 360, so it would stand to reason that games properly made for the PC and PS3 would take advantage of the extra juice the respective systems offer. However, by limiting all versions to the 360, they showed favoritism by only going as far as the 360 could and leaving the extra PC and PS3 power go to waste. That is an example of bias.

No, but if a game would obviously benefit from such a feature, and it could be done, why wouldn't it? Like the UI. The PC has a couple features called a 'keyboard' and 'mouse', however the UI was designed for a console controller. All the systems got the same UI, which according to your argument would mean there's no bias. But on the PC, the UI is difficult to navigate because the keyboard and mouse need to act as controller emulators. How is it not bias for the console versions to have a UI that fits better with their input device, while the PC version has to have a UI that is horrible to use with its input device(s)?

Only if it's arbitrary exclusion. If the consoles were capable of high-res textures and mods, you can bet they would have them. But as they don't have enough memory, and MS and Sony won't allow unchecked mods of this type, there's nothing Bethesda can do to fix it. They didn't make the consoles have limited memory, and they didn't make the consoles' user-content policies.

Actually, no. PC users bought a PC game, PS3 users bought a PS3 game, and 360 users bought a 360 game. The three are not the same, and treating them all like a 360 game would be bias.

Also, Bethesda didn't make the CK for modders. The CK is their own tool that they use internally to build the game (as was Morrowind's and Oblivion's Construction Sets for their respective games). What they did do is clean it up, remove certain pieces they weren't allowed to distribute, and release it publicly. Something to be grateful of, for sure, but they didn't build it for modders.

Huleed, everything you just said depends on how you define what is the "same game" and what isn't.

If you make the best possible game for 3 different systems, you end up with 3 different games.

If you make the same game for 3 different systems using the LCD, you have an unbiased, single game.

CHA-CHING
That's what the business as a general wants.

I have a Kinect, but i agree i don't want to yell 'SORT MY BAGS WOMEN!' everytime i want my bags sorted..

Are we even sure about that? For all we know, they could have said "Look, either we get the first 2 DLCs as a timed exclusive, or you aren't allowed to release your game on our platform.". Bethesda would lose a lot more in the second case than Microsoft, so it's not a deal they could refuse. And MS doesn't have to spend a single penny for the exclusivity.



That fact is often overlooked. Besides, Bethesda often tried to convince Sony and MS to allow mods on their consoles, but without success. It's really not the PC gamers fault they have this privilege, so why should they (and in this case PS3 gamers as well) suffer for it by arbitrarily delayed content?

I doubt it, Microsoft is still in the "extend" and "embrace" phase of their http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish with Xbox, when they get to the "extinguish" (or "exterminate") phase is when tactics like that or permanent exclusivity comes into play.

...Please tell me i'm paranoid. Please?

Yes we are sure of that.. Exclusivity deals are a double edged sword. It is certified revenue for the studio (their dlc) and it becomes a system incentive for the console builder.
Forced exclusivity in the way you are suggesting is illegal, specifically in the US.. (as well as the EU).
Fact is (controllable) that MS paid a lot of cash for timed exclusivity..

Eeeh I don't know blame Sony perhaps..
On the release of mods on consoles.. I feel Howards wishes to release them on consoles have been (mostly by himself) taken out of context.
Mod releases on consoles would be unworkable....
a ) It's user generated content which can change the vanilla content.. (thus making both Bethesda and the console builders liable)
b )a mod has to be patched together with a game patch..

Talk about throwing youur dolls out the pram...

As a PC gamer you not only get the creator kit, access to mods the console players will never have, and patches available up to a month before the Xbox and PS3 players.

And all for FREE.

Stop pissing and moaning, and take a reality check, dude.

I don't see this as talking out loud to an inanimate object. I see it as using my voice as a controller through a microphone. How is that different from using my fingers on the controller if the objective is identical? That objective is to make something happen on the screen and the Kinect allows me to do that in a way that is impossible with the controller. Now obviously I'm talking about more than just the sort function which could have been done in the menus but a lot of the other stuff, shouts, weapons/spell selection, ect could not be done on the controller the way it is with the Kinect.

Considering that lets put your argument into perspective. Lets say Bob has a 3G cell phone and Phil has a 4G cell phone. Now would you expect them to not release 4G features simply becaue Bob can't use them? You can't complain about this being added when you aren't willing to purchase the hardware involved whether you're comfortable with it or not. And the company is not at fault for releasing features that only work with specific hardware. That's just business.

And if this is only about the sort function only then you are way too angry over such a simple thing. Seriously it's not that big a deal. I've used it maybe 3 times so far. Big whoop. I could have been fine without it. Spell selection on the other hand I've already used dozens of times. And the way that is impliment is impossible with the controller anyway.

Some people get embarrassed to speak out loud when they are gaming, particularly if that speech involves things about the game like "FUS RO DAH."

I dunno, it doesn't bother me very much. I played call of duty for years in my living room, shouting things like "Watch that sniper" and "NADE!!" while my roomates rolled their eyes. It didn't hurt that my often-at-the-house girlfriend at the time was a big WoW player either, and had a troop of people she Vent'd with as well. I never did play WoW, and she never did play CoD.
Maybe that's why we broke up?

Live and let live. Or die, catastrophically, as it were. (From a grenade... that your buddy didn't warn you about... because he was too embarrassed to shout at the computer screen)

I'm fairly certain that you can just say 'unrelenting force' rather than the proper shout.

Goes to show I don't have a Kinect

You do understand why the PC version gets it's patches first, don't you? The PC patches don't have to go through the same verification process that they do for the 360 and PS3 versions. Bethesda also has to pay Sony and Microsoft to patch their respective systems. They use to arbitrarily hold the PC patches back, but they've gotten smarter. After the patch 1.2 fiasco, they've started using the PC (which they can patch for free) to beta test the patches. That way they can ensure the patch works and doesn't break anything else before passing it on to Microsoft and Sony. The patch sent to the consoles, then, is a much more solid patch than it would have otherwise been. And it ultimately means less patches are necessary, which saves them money.

I would like to see voice commands as well - not simply kinect. But it is a business after all. Frankly, with all the comments I make while playing, I'd probably get it all confused!

I don't want to stand and shout,\ when i play, but would welcome a headset based system... but being on an xbox, its best I don't even think about that since I don't think that'll ever happen. I hope I am wrong.

It is about standards. PS3 version should have a standard of decent framerates. It doesn't. This is incompetence though rather than bias.

PC have standards, latest graphics api and a special UI. But Bethesda thinks special PC UI is same UI with bad keyboad&mouse control. Not sure incompetence or bias.

Kinect features can be seen as standard for XBOX, apparently voice commands fits. Not bias.

Now a sorting feature, not the sort by voice feature, or getting DLC first are not part of any standards. This is bias. But they get paid so... Surely, there is more to it as we could pay for 20$ DLC for standard PC features and beat MS easily. It should be logistic help rather than pure cash, free marketing and such.

I like how MS is god and devil of PC gaming at the same time. MS wins in both situations, it is the DEVS who are weak and fall for the devil. Then they blame piracy so they can sleep at night.

I don't think it would be a problem for Skyrim. All of my friends who have played ME3 with the same Kinect functionality didn't have a problem with it. Some of them are introverts and some are extroverts.

Cycles for sorting a text list?! You mean like the power a radio uses takes out of your car's performance?

Except that we don't know what process Bethesda is using to generate the inventory list. They have done [censored] things in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't actually a list, but some sort of strange "object" or something.

I don't know. I don't program stuff. I just know that bethesda has unlimited capacity to be ridiculous.

This. It seems phenomentally stupid to me to be yelling at my TV, for anything. Heck, it felt really, really odd the one time I tried voice coms with other players (Trying to play D&DOnline with some old friends).


Between the "yelling at the screen" thing and the "waving your arms around like an idiot" thing, the Kinect just makes me cringe. I've honestly no idea why anyone would want one of those things. (But, then, I also don't understand the kind of people who would play something like DDR in an arcade in front of other people. Could be side-effects of stagefright and being pretty introverted. )

For example:

Very near launch, a lot of people were up in arms about the keymapping. Apparently, on the PC, when you remap a key in the game, the user interface does not change to reflect that. So while you may have mapped "Take All" to the "[" key or something, the UI will still say "Press R to Take All."

This made it very difficult to tell what the correct key would be, because there's also nowhere that you can go to find the original defaults. Unless, of course, you just reset your whole map.
So anyway, that was a big stupid fuss right at the beginning.

Bethesda's response?
"Nothing we can do about it. We can't spare the processing power to display dynamic key icons."

Excuse me?

There's no possible way that makes any sense. For one thing, they would only need to do it for PC, where processing power is hardly a problem. Secondly, there have got to be fifty billion ways to still use a static image, but just have it change said static image when the key maps are changed.

Ugh.

So there they go, demonstrating their unlimited capacity for the utterly ridiculous.

Kinect has the API built in... that's the issue. It takes the voice commands already and can already easy translate it into a usable command in game. To tap into that functionality does not require a lot of work. I think it's crazy that there are some people out there who would see Bethesda not use this functionality that is easily available to them just because they don't have the hardware.

Thank you


Yea, no I agree with this. I had suspected that the Kinect was doing the work for at least the voice recognition. The question is, if it's just translating that into a command, what is the command for "menu sort?"

And... does that command exist without the Kinect?