Such a Shame Skyrim Pt2 : V - Skyrim

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:41 pm

Oh no, we get it... you want a game that's within the price range of teh allowance you get for the chores you don't do. You want that game to be custom built to your exact specifications. We get that. We got that last thread, and we'll get that next thread. The consumers HAVE spoken. That's something YOU don't get. You're a minority, a greasy wheel. Don't expect you to understand teh mile mide, foot deep reference, but if you don't, look it up. Come back with substance. 'Kay?

I did have substance in the last thread. And didn't I say to come into my thread with a little more respect?

Also I have you know that I'm twenty years old and have a job, thank you very much. When I buy a game I want it to be worth my money. The money I put a hard earning day in. I want my money to be worth and mean something. I do not like feeling like I wasted it.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:22 pm

I dislike much about Skyrim, but in a way, I suppose that's due to my own (foolish) expections.
I thought Oblivion would be the "bad" one.

The problems I have with the game are so vast in size and so many in number that I have trouble stating them all.
It's like a inverse of Christmas time, when you have several presents before you, and you can't decide which to open.

Games like Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, The Witcher 1 & 2, Dragon's Dogma, Two Worlds 2, and possibly others that I did not play, presented the Action RPG Fantasy genre with improvements, each distinct, but all of a high quality.

Meanwhile, Skyrim still uses the combat system of a game that came out six years ago, not to mention strips away options that Oblivion had, and looks like a game from 2009.
Why does something like Red Dead Redemption have better graphic quality than Skyrim? That game came out two years ago.
Why do handheld RPGs have better and more fluid combat systems than Skyrim?
Why does a game like Saints Row 2 have better character creation and characterization than Skyrim?

Skyrim is game I've played more than other recent games, despite Skyrim doing everything worse than every other game, and that's simply because of the breadth of content within.
I'd say Skyrim has more content than other games, but at the same time most of that content is bland and boring, and once I've done it with a character, there's no reason to do it again because there's never any other way to do it, except maybe doing it worse and losing part of your reward.

This game doesn't even feel as ambitious as Oblivion did, and especially not Fallout 3, this game feels like something they made because they had to.
At no point did I think while watching how unsuitable this engine is for Dragon combat that this game has heart put into it, never did I think while navigating through menus dumbed down to a ludicrous level that someone made this for any reason other than to make money.

I don't want to say this game is soulless, but that's the way I feel.

My thoughts exactly. Bethesda can definitely learn from the Souls games and the other ones you mentioned.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:57 pm

I agree with the OP and I'm appalled by some thinking that Skyrim does everything right; best story, best combat, biggest amount of player choice, best exploration, best writing and the best game that has ever been made. Now opinions are opinions, but it is hard for me to understand why some people can't admit the flaws of the game, and tell the OP to stop whining and leave. Seriously? Can't have some friendly constructive criticism once in a while?

There's a difference between "admitting its flaws" and finding flaws that don't exist.

Like, what is this "bare minimum" we are talking about? So just because some content appeared after release, they could've made it into the original? Yes they could, but it didn't worked out, due to multiple reasons. Frankly this argument could be used to everything. Why didn't Morrowind had Werervolves in the first place? Why didn't Morrowind use better graphics? Why did Morrowind only include ONE island?
You can always ask for more, there's always more to be done... but this isn't "constructive criticism", nothing in this thread or this forum is. It's just "it svcks". Why does it svck? Just because...

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:06 pm

See, in my other thread I pointed out a few games and explained what they had.

TW2 better graphics than Oblivion, I mean visually amazing in its own right, textures look right. Character models are horrendous, but it's forgiven because of the environments and the content put in it

-Spellcrafting
-Armor in pieces not just one giant cuirass
-Crafting allows you to break items into their elemental parts, to make new items
-Books teach you on strageties of spellcrafting and fighting
-Lockpicks can be broke with a sword, but items may be damage; you can open it with magic, or you can lockpick
-You also have clothing Dye

Not only that, but the graphics are definetely better than Oblivion's. Yet, it has all the same content, some quest were more memorable than others, etc.

And I'm not asking for Oblivion TES5. I'm asking for substance to my game. I'm asking to not cut out materials. Its like making a house and because someone doesn't like the windows they tear down the whole entire house instead of updating the windows.

Didn't Oblivion come out in 2006 though TW2 came out in 2010, TW one was garbage. Innovation is nice. It had some good ideas, but still a more immersive game than Skyrim, I think not. Business people go by the philosophy if it ain't broke don't fix it. So why give them a pizza when they ordered a Big Mac? Skyrim improved on oblivions role playing immersive game aspect. The combat is simpler and you have more control over it than you did in Oblivion or Morrowind. It's simple, its effective, it works, do we really need overly complicated attirbute stats when we have a perk system that can make our characters turn out drastically different? I like hacking and slashing with barbarian, defending the innocent with my paladin and sneak killing people with my assassin. I agree there are places for improvement, but really having original ideas doesn't make it better. It just makes it different.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:15 am

The game isn't going to magically improve just because people don't like certain aspects of it, almost a solid year after it was released.

Focus on constructive criticism towards TES6, or Fallout 4, but the Skyrim ship - if not having already sailed - is at least sitting at dock waiting for the go-ahead. This isn't Mass Effect 3 where a few hundred thousand people were outraged from the moment they hit the ending sequence.

Also, routinely comparing "Series 1" to "Series 2" or "Game 1" to "Game 2" doesn't really do anything other than showcase preference. There are people who think Skyrim is trash and The Witcher 2 is great, there are people who think The Witcher 2 is trash and Skyrim is great. There are people who don't like New Vegas and Morrowind, something I still have a distinct amount of trouble coming to terms with as they sit high on my Favorite Games list. I do not want The Elder Scrolls to be The Witcher 2 or an installment of the 'Souls series, I want them to continue being The Elder Scrolls, their own distinct style.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:07 am

The game isn't going to magically improve just because people don't like certain aspects of it, almost a solid year after it was released.

Focus on constructive criticism towards TES6, or Fallout 4, but the Skyrim ship - if not having already sailed - is at least sitting at dock waiting for the go-ahead. This isn't Mass Effect 3 where a few hundred thousand people were outraged from the moment they hit the ending sequence.

Also, routinely comparing "Series 1" to "Series 2" or "Game 1" to "Game 2" doesn't really do anything other than showcase preference. There are people who think Skyrim is trash and The Witcher 2 is great, there are people who think The Witcher 2 is trash and Skyrim is great. There are people who don't like New Vegas and Morrowind, something I still have a distinct amount of trouble coming to terms with as they sit high on my Favorite Games list. I do not want The Elder Scrolls to be The Witcher 2 or an installment of the 'Souls series, I want them to continue being The Elder Scrolls, their own distinct style.

Well I'm just using Skyrim, since its out a base to say these are improvements that should have been made.

When building a house, you don't tear down the whole entire house and uproot because the windows are bad. Is what I am talking about when it comes to Skyrims. Its a nice home, with blemishes that needed updating.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:30 am

I almost vomited when I saw the Hearthfire (house armor) video. This people have clearly loss all passion, creativity, imagination and have turned into money hungry or addicted politicians, trying to milk as much money as they can and alienating the fans in the process

Oh please. They're not charging you 2 dollars to put a cosmetic item on your horse. It's 5 dollars for what looks to have what it's worth in content. And what is wrong with micro dlc? Why does that make you have no passion, creativity, or imagination? What qualifies as passion, creativity or imagination for you? It's not being money hungry. Was it day 1? Was it cut from the disc? No, it wasn't. Hell, fans wanted this DLC. And they're milking us because they gave us what we asked for? Come on.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:53 am

For sure it would be cool if game had included all the extra staff when it actually comes out, but we also have to understand that bethesda is business company and they motto is, just like any other successful business is to make cash. and we will get little [censored] her and there but for most part we are still getting way better deal with elder scrolls games than pretty much any other game

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:34 am

I'm beginning to wonder if my "Three Skills" thread got me blacklisted by a lot of users, and that's why no one ever reply's to me.

:forever-alone:

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:33 pm

I'm beginning to wonder if my "Three Skills" thread got me blacklisted by a lot of users, and that's why no one ever reply's to me.

:forever-alone:

I'm listening, just a lot of things to address. ahahaha.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:08 am

Heathfire is a good step in the right direction

Disagree.. I would much rather have a Shivering Isles 2.0 DLC rather than "Lets Play House DLC"

My Windhelm house works fine.. I really couldn't care what a minority among fans want.. Bethesda shouldn't act like the developers of minecraft who add writing books to the game because a minority of the consumers want it..

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:06 pm

Well I'm just using Skyrim, since its out a base to say these are improvements that should have been made.

When building a house, you don't tear down the whole entire house and uproot because the windows are bad. Is what I am talking about when it comes to Skyrims. Its a nice home, with blemishes that needed updating.

And I'd argue that the sideways built, lackluster house was Oblivion and we're just now starting to see the "lift" out of that particular construction zone quagmire. Skyrim is still riddled with a number of problems, big and small, groanworthy and negligible, but at least I'm having fun again. That's the basis of my justification over the $60 I spent, especially when I've spent just as much for much, much shorter experiences that quickly made their way to the wall of shame.

As such, I've spent five dollars on things that certainly were not worth it, all the way down to entire games on Steam sale. When you consider the fraction of an hour's wages that five dollars is, if I can get at least that much time saying "Hey, I really am enjoying this purchase" for over ten minutes, it was worth it.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:48 am

And I'd argue that the sideways built, lackluster house was Oblivion and we're just now starting to see the "lift" out of that particular construction zone quagmire. Skyrim is still riddled with a number of problems, big and small, groanworthy and negligible, but at least I'm having fun again. That's the basis of my justification over the $60 I spent, especially when I've spent just as much for much, much shorter experiences that quickly made their way to the wall of shame.

As such, I've spent five dollars on things that certainly were not worth it, all the way down to entire games on Steam sale. When you consider the fraction of an hour's wages that five dollars is, if I can get at least that much time saying "Hey, I really am enjoying this purchase" for over ten minutes, it was worth it.

For me 60 dollars....was...not Skyrims price.

40 at most. 20 extra is a little bit overboard, imo.

But that's because I'm the type of person whom like stories, choices, and customization. Spending hours on my characters looks is erm...a guilty passion of mine.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:00 pm

It really has become a shame. So many problems, so much bizarre content or lack thereof. So many holes, so much done wrong. Steam (We're not criminals, Bethesda. You wouldnt have had the money to make this game if we were. Please stop treating us like criminals.)

Maybe if Bethesda actually fixed the bugs that exist before releasing yet more bugged content, I'd give them a pass. But my shadows still come up as pinstripes, and my menu still cant close without the precision of a gem cutter. Oh and those killcams that get me killed more than anything. love those..

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:41 am

I feel like I already said my piece in the last thread, though I thought I should answer one thing:

Why does a game like Saints Row 2 have better character creation and characterization than Skyrim?

Do you really expect Skyrim, ANY RPG, or even ANY GAME, to compete with this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50oSCYaoTaU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhcKMD-wFR4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG-YJJDJvTU&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP0XSKf9WlE&feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DzOFNx1bC8&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjPTnrq6yhA&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMGBt9scLSE&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsd8VqYiQvE&playnext=1&list=PL51C01F2FC01ED7C2&feature=results_video

I doubt even Saints Row: The Third can compete with that. The female characters look much better in Saints Row: The Third, but not the male ones. Saints Row 2 is King in that department.

No shame in Skyrim doing less than Saints Row 2, but it definitely should do more for variety and customization.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:52 am

For me 60 dollars....was...not Skyrims price.

40 at most. 20 extra is a little bit overboard, imo.

But that's because I'm the type of person whom like stories, choices, and customization. Spending hours on my characters looks is erm...a guilty passion of mine.

And that, my good sir, is entirely your prerogative, which I absolutely respect.

I work on a utilitarian point of view when it comes to purchasing price points : Did I glean the amount of time in entertainment that I had to work in order to buy it. I have enjoyed far more than two hours of Skyrim, and so it's quite an entertainment investment for me at this point. On the flip side, I did not enjoy Spore or RAGE for the five hours I had to work in order to get either of those titles, so they sit uncomfortably on my wall of "Why did I fall for that."

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:23 pm

I feel like I already said my piece in the last thread, though I thought I should answer one thing:

Do you really expect Skyrim, ANY RPG, or even ANY GAME, to compete with this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50oSCYaoTaU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhcKMD-wFR4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG-YJJDJvTU&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP0XSKf9WlE&feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DzOFNx1bC8&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjPTnrq6yhA&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMGBt9scLSE&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsd8VqYiQvE&playnext=1&list=PL51C01F2FC01ED7C2&feature=results_video

I doubt even Saints Row: The Third can compete with that. The female characters look much better in Saints Row: The Third, but not the male ones. Saints Row 2 is King in that department.

No shame in Skyrim doing less than Saints Row 2, but it definitely should do more for variety and customization.

Bethesda beats saints row with Patrick Stewart and Ron Perlman alone.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:25 pm

Do I think the OP is whining, just a bit.

Don't accuse folks of whining when they are merely stateing their opinions. That is flaming! :toughninja:

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:08 pm

Bethesda beats saints row with Patrick Stewart and Ron Perlman alone.

We're talking about faces.
And Bethesda beats absolutely no one when it comes to faces.

I feel like I already said my piece in the last thread, though I thought I should answer one thing:

Do you really expect Skyrim, ANY RPG, or even ANY GAME, to compete with this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50oSCYaoTaU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhcKMD-wFR4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG-YJJDJvTU&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP0XSKf9WlE&feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DzOFNx1bC8&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjPTnrq6yhA&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMGBt9scLSE&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsd8VqYiQvE&playnext=1&list=PL51C01F2FC01ED7C2&feature=results_video

I doubt even Saints Row: The Third can compete with that. The female characters look much better in Saints Row: The Third, but not the male ones. Saints Row 2 is King in that department.

No shame in Skyrim doing less than Saints Row 2, but it definitely should do more for variety and customization.

Yes there is shame in doing less than Saints Row 2, that game came out four years ago!

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:03 pm

I feel like I already said my piece in the last thread, though I thought I should answer one thing:

Do you really expect Skyrim, ANY RPG, or even ANY GAME, to compete with this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50oSCYaoTaU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhcKMD-wFR4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG-YJJDJvTU&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP0XSKf9WlE&feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DzOFNx1bC8&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjPTnrq6yhA&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMGBt9scLSE&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsd8VqYiQvE&playnext=1&list=PL51C01F2FC01ED7C2&feature=results_video

I doubt even Saints Row: The Third can compete with that. The female characters look much better in Saints Row: The Third, but not the male ones. Saints Row 2 is King in that department.

No shame in Skyrim doing less than Saints Row 2, but it definitely should do more for variety and customization.

They all have a dead soulless appearance to them, their eyes have no life. Like lifeless dolls looking for a soul to enter their body so they can be real again.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:58 pm

For me 60 dollars....was...not Skyrims price.

40 at most. 20 extra is a little bit overboard, imo.

But that's because I'm the type of person whom like stories, choices, and customization. Spending hours on my characters looks is erm...a guilty passion of mine.

not trying to hate on you my man, but if skyrim was no 60 worth to you just interested to see what games were

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:08 pm

I do not want The Elder Scrolls to be The Witcher 2 or an installment of the 'Souls series, I want them to continue being The Elder Scrolls, their own distinct style.

Skyrim has already adopted things from "casual", big blockbuster games, and its own distinct style is already being manipulated with. Things like the Vampire Lords, which are rather mainstream and cliche have entered the TES world. TES should take inspiration from its lore and their own ideas rather than taking an idea from something else.

TES should be its own distinct style, but that doesn't mean there could be major improvements in terms of story and combat. Games like the Souls games have great combat and there is no reason why Bethesda shouldn't try improving it.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:05 am

I do not want The Elder Scrolls to be The Witcher 2 or an installment of the 'Souls series, I want them to continue being The Elder Scrolls, their own distinct style.

Oh, you absolutely must hate Skyrim, then, huh?

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:11 am

Skyrim has already adopted things from "casual", big blockbuster games, and its own distinct style is already being manipulated with. Things like the Vampire Lords, which are rather mainstream and cliche have entered the TES world. TES should take inspiration from its lore and their own ideas rather than taking an idea from something else.

TES should be its own distinct style, but that doesn't mean there could be major improvements in terms of story and combat. Games like the Souls games have great combat and there is no reason why Bethesda shouldn't try improving it.

You'll have to pardon my lack of field experience, but while I accept that "vampires" are rather cliche and mainstream, I'm not entirely certain I've seen anything similar to a Vampire Lord other than maybe the brainless Underworld movies, for appearance anyway. Frankly, I could have lived without lycanthropy and vampirism entirely, so I viewed that less as "They're copying people!" and more as "Hell yeah, more stupid vampires to murder!"

Oh, you absolutely must hate Skyrim, then, huh?

Skyrim feels like it's own individual element, so no, I do not. Would that I were so sheltered to the dregs of mainstream gaming that I wasn't painfully aware of what "cookie cutter franchises" actually looked like.

» Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:39 pm

Skyrim has already adopted things from "casual", big blockbuster games, and its own distinct style is already being manipulated with. Things like the Vampire Lords, which are rather mainstream and cliche have entered the TES world. TES should take inspiration from its lore and their own ideas rather than taking an idea from something else.

Not to mention that Skyrim is about dragons, the most cliche thing possible in the fantasy genre.