How were they one-dimensional in Fallout 2? And killing for the sake of killing, pretty easy to prove wrong just look at my sig; in their own delueded way they thought that they were saving the world, wrong or otherwise they weren't just doing it for the sake of it. All F3 introduced was Autumn rebelling for no explained reason and getting everyone in the Enclave killed.

Autumn rebelled because he wasn't on-board with Eden's genocide. He just wanted to control the water supply and make everyone else svck up to the Enclave to get a piece of it. If James and the Lone Wanderer weren't so unreasonable it might've worked. Or if he hadn't shot Janice Kaplinski. Either way, most of them are just out to kill everything that isn't wearing the star-circled E.

If you speech challenge him at the end he is surprised and shocked that you have the viruses, saying that Eden had abandonned the plan months ago; so his little shoot-em-up in Raven Rock wasn't about them.



Something else that annoyed me, the Enclave never had a symbol, in-fact in Fallout 2 the word Enclave typically referred to the Oil Rig itself; it was the President of the United States of America - with the seal too - and the US Secret Service, not President of the Enclave and the Enclave Secret Service.

look u guys who are old " here " most of us don't care , didn't come here to see who's old and who's not , we're here discussing the game

ok take post apocalyptic world , what kind of emeny's can u have :

enclave - military organizations with pre war tech

cesar's legion - slavers

brotherhood - fanatics

ncr - corrupted governments

tribals - well ....

if u take all this away becouse : " we old guys seen it all and don't want " X " faction becouse we seen it before, and " the newbies don't like Y faction " because of whatever reason u will end up fighting night elves , gnomes , orc , trolls , blood elfs , goblins

i personaly don't like some factions ... but i still think that in a real wasteland they exist so having diversity is a good ideea

PS : i don't want the enclave to come back , i want them to be playable

The Enclave did kill for the lulz in Fallout 2 (was there really any need for them to shoot those Vault residents in the Fallout 2 intro?), but even worse was their endgame. Wiping out every non-Enclave human the entire planet with their toxic airborne FEV was always their real goal, regardless of their justification (which in my honest opinion was pretty weak), that's a tad bit extreme. They always felt like cartoon villains to me. :shrug:

That kinda bugs me to why is it a star and E when it should be the seal of the US. Its the former government of the United States which kinda sounds like my government now, if you compare the Enclave to the Current United States Government.

I put those killings at the begining down to Enclave Troopers being a little too gung-ho; Richardson actually thanks you for the sacrifice you are doing for your country if you talk to him wearing a Vault Suit.

I see as no weaker than the Master's Plan, he doesn't like humans because what, they caused the Great War? So he conducts a campaign of ethnic cleansing bent on turning everyone into one race as if that will solve any of the problems which led to the War? With the Enclave I would argue that they are the product of the environment which they've been in for +150 years.

The way I see it is that the original Enclave members from before the war started to panic about whether the future generations would want to stay aboard the ENCLAVE; they had Vault data - which they did most definately moniter from the ENCLAVE - and perhaps they saw Vaults decend into chaos due to people wanting to leave or maybe their was just internal resistance to the idea of staying cooped up. So they decided to create the Enclave we see, heavily rooted in patriotism and xenophobia through non-stop propaganda broadcasts - again confirmed even in the ENCLAVE days - and such. When they all died the lie became the truth and the will to question it had gone due to the new attitude to the elected officials - who were themselves heavily rooted in the 'truth'. Eventually they explored the mainland in the late 2170's and saw the Master's leaderless Armies rampaging about and any doubts were crushed. Come Fallout 2 you have the President himself pretty much declare his willingness to martyr himself for the Project because he believes it will save the human race - reading his quotes he considers himself more saving humanity than America.

@Sniper, exactly; Fallout 2 said they had a symbol on their armour that the tribal couldn't recognise; the Enclave used pre-war seals and such after the war for everything else.

Enclave was not the US Government they where more a loby of influence that extended theyr influence to everything importante before the war

Richardson was also a politician.



On the contrary, the Master had a back story, he had depth and that's what separates him from Richardson. Richard Grey was a good man and an idealist who got screwed over when he investigated Mariposa with Harold. Even after becoming the Master Grey never had anything against normals per se, he just didn't feel that they were fit to be in charge because they're the ones who originally destroyed the world in the first place. I don't agree with all of his methods, but I find it easier to sympathize with him than Richardson. He was never out to KILL ALL HUMANS, he was going to let most humans who didn't become mutants live (after being sterilized).



This is mostly conjecture. Richardson wanted to wipe out every non-Enclave human on the planet, and the only reason we're actually given is that the DNA of humans living on the mainland is a bit different because of background radiation/FEV. I never found that to be a particularly convincing justification for their endgame.

Ehh..It wasn't the entire government. It was more closely related to a political party, which would sense for them to have a seal of their own. That said, they should the flag on more stuff.


@ The Enclave, I'll get back to your posts in a bit. What I want to say is lengthy and I don't feel like putting it all down right now.

I know what your saying but he has no reason to lie to you right, he doesn't pull any punches when he knows your a tribal and he doesn't break down or cower when you say your going to kill him.



Well the do say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I personally still don't see the difference, Richardson didn't think that the people on the mainland were humans - something he could prove scientifically too - and thought what he was going to do was best in the long-run. The Master didn't think that humans were fit to run the world so he was going to render them extinct.


Indeed it is, I still find it a highly likely scenario; most of everything on the Enclave must be done in this manner as so little infomation is given about them. You are given reasons other than that, he doesn't believe that humans and mutants could survive in unison:

{293}{prs62}{Not at all. Look to the future. Sure muties and men could get along for a while, but before you know it, the numeric pressure of your kind would tell. No, a line must be drawn in the sand - the buck stops here.}

He is trying to save his own people as much as anything else, that's why he was elected; just that the sensibilites that he had been taught led him on a less-than-peaceful approach.

Something which we will never know, if you are refering to Daniel Bird's hilarious dialouge that's not really to be taken seriously; just Black Isle taking a dump on atmosphere.


Should I be looking forward to this?

Could i say the Enclave kinda represents the Democratic party :violin:

No, I've only played Fallout 3 and NV and even I'm sick of the Enclave. Instead of bringing back the same dudes, why not come up with a new faction that knows what the hell they're doing? I agree, fighting the Legion got boring because they are easy prey. I'm sure if they gave them some better equipment the problem would get fixed right there.

I really don't think the Enclave are going to make a come back in New Vegas.Just cross your figures and hope they make into Fallout 4. I wouldn't mind seeing them again.

Are you using a hammer or sniper rifle?

Fallout 1: The Master
Fallout 2: The Enclave
Fallout 3: The Enclave (and again in the dlc)
Fallout NV: NCR/Legion.

Apply math.

I would like to see the Enclave in Fallout again but not just as simple enemies. I wouldn't want a whole Fallout devoted to them again but a DLC would be good. A storyline that appeals to me is that the main character of Fallout X travels to Chicago and runs into the Chicago base. The Chicago base would be small and was originally built more as a research centre than a military base so its not well armed. Since each character you play in each Fallout game is different you dont have to make your character immediately hostile to the Enclave. You could have a series of quests that lead you to meeting the Chicago base whereupon you find two factions competing for control. One faction is the left overs from F2 and F3 wanting to rebuild.

The other faction in the Chicago base would be the original inhabitants before the defeated Enclave military turned up. Mainly scientists, researchers, academics. These are not military people and have seen the destruction of massive amounts resources and lives and want to take the Enclave in a different different.

Basically the player can side with the military faction and rebuild the Enclave as a military power. If you side with the Enclave military faction you help them rebuild instead of kicking their butts and making them look like incompetent fools (defeating them in battle for the 3rd time in a Fallout game gets silly). Raven Rock and Adams Air Force would have to have been built and some sort of equipment there prior to the Enclave showing up after the oil rig is blown up. I'm guessing the Enclave have more access to equipment than people. Part of the storyline in you choose Enclave military would be to help locate and obtain more stashed Enclave equipment.

If you side with the Enclave scientists wanting a change you could help them link up with the CW BoS from F3 since the Brotherhood at the Citadel and the scientists in Chicago basically have similar goals. At the end these two form a new faction since the old Enclave and Brother of Steel don't represent them anymore.

Basically what I'm saying is that I want to see the Enclave again but not as villains (unless you're with them).

He starts off with PR speak but becomes genuine after realizing who you are if I remember correctly.



I haven't seen anything in the games that leads me to believe that normals aren't human.



Right, so how would normals and 'pure strain humans' be able to tell each other apart without some sort of indicator? Did you see normals lining up to kill the Enclave remnants in New Vegas?

{262}{prs49}{Never. Part of the president's job is to make the tough decisions. A lot of near-humans will sacrifice their lives for the return of humanity. Humans will prevail.}
{265}{prs50}{You can't stop it. The tests are complete and the toxin is ready for release. In hours, your villagers will be the first to make the ultimate sacrifice. The other mutants will follow. An unfortunate footnote in the continuing history of the human race.}

I see no reason why he shouldn't genuinely feel some remorse for the all the people he's killing, but he is a fanatic and even a martyr.



I really think that this would be something that the Enclave thought of you know? There was the whole FEV release thing mentioned in Fallout, the Enclave's own tests about how it would be facinating to study the changes in addition to the effect ingesting radioactive water had on those in Vault City - making them largely infertile to the point that all births had to be controlled through artificial insemination. Also, the Master's need for pure-humans would indicate some kind of difference.



They probably wouldn't, notice I my use of the words 'deluded' and 'incorrect'; more than likely he is also refering to the Enclave's very small numbers and probably inability to protect and provide for the great number of people. It's the rather malicious way that people think of the Enclave which I try and oppose, I don't see them as anything other than victims of the sins of their fathers - Richardson era included. Like I remember this guy who thought that if the Enclave took over they would just enslave any survivors and continue inhuman experimentation - nothing else of course; I just don't like people's attitude towards them they are born evil incarnate and incapable of anything, at the very least appreciate that they haven't got a full deck.

Same with Vault City who are being actively oppressed with thier leaders deleting infomation about mutation rates and lying to them about the fineness of it all; yet we're supposed to chuckle when they become 'second-class' NCR citizens in one of the endings because on face value they were rather mean, it's irony :teehee: get-it? Hur-Hur. And the Legion too, Dead Sea, taken as a five year old child and told he was fighting for the Son of Mars, yet apparently if you go by some people's words he deserves to be brutalised for his actions when they are infact just those of Caesar; the organisation is evil but the people in it are just as much slaves as anyone. Caesar needs to die for all the people the Legion killed and the people in the Legion themselves who's lives he destroyed.

Fair point.



The differences seem negligible based on what we've actually seen throughout the series. Most normals can reproduce, and physically they look exactly like pure strain humans, so I see no reason not to consider them human.



I'm not saying there's no difference, just that normals are just as human as pure-strain folks. The differences between the two seems negligible based on what we've seen throughout the series.



I never claimed that they were evil incarnate, but their actions and lack of development throughout the series thus far hasn't exactly painted them as a deep faction for me. They're rather simplistic and underdeveloped compared to the other antagonistic organizations of the franchise. Fallout 3 didn't help any since Bethesda didn't really expand on them, and in addition they made them seem like bumbling fools.

Never said you did old sport, it's just one of the reasons I try to defend them; I just think that I 'get' the Enclave, I've read-and-read every single thing about them ever mentioned and base all of my opinions on that - of which I have plenty. Then someone just says something like, "Enclave are evil derp", and it pisses me right off because - as far as I am concerned - it isn't so black-and-white. Now I agree with you that they aren't fleshed out, hence why I have to craft thearoies spanning 150 years, from which no infomation is given and only speculation exists; I can't remember anything about Fallout, but reading the President's dialouge as often as I end up doing, all you can do is insult his 'lunacy' really or threaten to kill him which is really disappointing.

As for F3, that is a topic for another day; I will spare you my favourite clip at the start of Take it Back when three Vertibirds come at Prime from behind and they all fly past save for one who stops right in front of his and slowly turns to use his laser; I often use it to illustrate how the Enclave loosing is because they were forced too and not because of any inferiorit on their part.

You guys are misunderstanding eachother. They are in 50% of the popular games, that doesn't include Tactics or Brotherhood, but they are the antagonist in 40% of all of the games. M'kay?

I want Chinese Remnants!