I payed for it, I own it.
I don't care what some lawyer or executive says, He can either give me my money back or go home.
I'm sure the Law has bigger problems.

Yea they throw people in jail for activating certain receptors in their brain. Murderers and rapists the next in line.

But you don't, that's the thing. At best, you own the plastic it came in, and possibly even the manual. If you bought a game digitally distributed, you don't even get that much. I already explained why earlier in the topic: Games, unlike things such as furniture and hardware, are incredibly easy for the average consumer to create copies of, potentially in bulk. If we had full ownership rights over video games, a handful of people could buy them, make copies, then distribute them around the population at a price lower than the game's publisher is offering, thus dooming the industry to crash and burn. Methods had to be taken to prevent (Well, more like control, since they can't magically stop it) something like that from happening, and thus the Terms of Service agreement was put into place. We don't have full ownership not because they don't want us to have it, but because they can't let us have it. It's bad for business.

That's basically like going to a movie theater to see a movie and then claiming you own the movie. Sorry, you're just wrong.

Try telling a judge that "I bought it. I own it. I don't care what the law says"

Not only will you not get your money or win your case, but you'll be laughed out of the courtroom.

I can go to amazon and dl a song and make as many copies as I like, what about that?? I tell you if I would not have been able to do that I would not have Dl it. Fact is I did buy it, some one made a profit, i got my music then copied it a dozen times and made 3 cds, so what? A game isnt any different, if people start losing the control of the things they buy they are very likely to not buy any more.

And that is precisely why it is illegal to do that. You may or may not be caught, but should you, you would have the ToS used against you (and very effectively) to bring you down. That's what the agreement exists to do. What you just said, every single word of it, is the exact reason why we do not have full rights over this type of media.

I think you're confusing what you're physically able to do and what you're legally allowed to do. Also, I don't think people are saying that this is the way it should be...just that it is.

I'm not some villian who buys games then makes copys just so I can watch the economic chaos that ensues. I just want to play them.

If I payed for a disc, its mine. I own it. I did not sign any contract, I made a simple trade.
If the companies want to hire a guy to stand at every gamestore and announce the Terms and Conditions and ask me to sign them before I buy a game, then I can't see a problem. I know what I'd be in for. But they don't.
I just bought the game. A disc, a manual, box. No contracts, No stupid liscense.
If I want to sell that game to friend, I will. If someone can trace the collapse of the Industry to that partiular trade, Do it.
As long as I have the disc, I am going to play it.
If I have to download it so its a digital only copy I have no control over, I'll keep what I have and mod them.
I'd like to see them try and stop that.

If amazon didnt want me to make a copy for each of my devices and a few cds they would have the music copy protected. Dont tell me they cant do that this day and age.

You didn't buy a game, you bought a license. The license is in every manual of every game, and buying the game is an agreement to that license. Again if you don't like it, feel free to throw the game in the trash. Using the game is the act of agreeing to that license.

When all games are digital only I would assume you'd have to agree to the EULA (again end user license agreement) before making the purchase. You hit disagree, no game for you, everyone's happy.

Ok. However, people do it.

Yes, you own the disc.

This is why they would probably enclose a product key with the disc that needs to be activated on PSN in order for your console to run the game. They'll make you check the EULA box when you activate the key on your account. Done and done.

Of course they can. In fact, it used to be done quite often. However, it was a PITA to get 3rd-parties to support a DRM standard so it mostly stopped. That doesn't mean it's legal to distribute copies of the song to other people.

Tell me, what do you do every time you install a video game onto your computer? You scroll down a huge wall of text and click "Accept", right? That is your agreement, and it's foolish to assume, especially these days, that you are not "Accepting" these terms whenever you start up a video game. When you get on a console and make an account, you agree to a ToS. Hell, you're practically agreeing to it when you buy the console. It's a rule, even if you don't pay enough attention to see that it's there. You agree to it, so as far as game companies are concerned, you have absolutely no right to complain afterwards.

Also, since when was a digital copy something you "have no control over"? It's easy to distribute digital copies as well as physical ones, so the same exact rules will naturally apply. Once you have access to the data, you are capable of doing many things with it. The question is, do they stay within the boundaries of the ToS? Is what you're doing what that data lawful? Like I already said, the fact that you don't have full ownership rights over games and music isn't because the people in power are [censored] with you, they're doing it so they don't immediately go under due to a severe lack of sales.

Who here is going to be happy when they turn on the xbox 5000 or ps5 and it says you can not play server maintenance eta 5 hours. Oh sure I already know some ones going to say well that’s good servers need maintenance. All im saying is there has to be a better way of selling & using games then the direction its headed. Its like fixing something that wasn’t even broken.

So as it stands the future of Console gaming is the worst of PC gaming?

makes me almost glad I stopped with the PS1

They obviously wouldn't have a system that works only through the 'net unless they have the means to keep it up and running at nearly all times, even during bouts of maintenance. You're just getting extremely pessimistic about this whole thing. Game companies are jerks, yes, but they're not stupid. Okay, so that one time with Sony, but hopefully that's a lesson learned.

Good God, you know [censored]'s hit the fan when I'm playing the optimist in a topic about video games.

well the industry does seem to be in a self-destructive frenzy lately

All I know, is if this comes pass, I'll be done with video gaming, me and my pathetically small 5GB Data cap(which is still better then the crappy dial-up I had for the last decade and a half up until a month ago) can't possibly download games, and seeing as how I am a very serious video game enthusiast, one game in a month when there is a good chance I'd want 2 or 3, I'll just pass on all 3 and go buy a dozen new books and read instead. Lousy idea this is, and I certainly won't support it. Vote with your wallet, not with your tongue, it's the only thing these morons will respect. To several others on the thread who said they are firm believers in Physical Copies and the like, you're not the only ones, I'm much the same way. I like to be able to carry my box and/or instruction manual to the bathroom with me. I can't carry my desktop with me to read a PDF instruction manual.

Yes the disc, but not the content. Sorry pal, read the license. Be glad you don't run companies like this, you'll get sued right away for thousands of dollars+. Or they could simply remotely disabling your right to use it without knowing. Try to listen to the IT guys who know the laws and the tech here, you'll be the only one that suffers if you don't.

Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it's not there. The EULA you blindly click accept is a license. By clicking accept you are bounded by law. Cry however you want, you're only lying to yourself.

But that's a good thing. When the current industry destroys itself with this stupid stuff, a new one will be created. Like it used to be in the past. And with luck it will stay non-evil for a decade or more

All I gonna say now is if the companies wishes to do this sort of crap then I wont submit to this sort of stuff. I am a Dial-Up person so I play offline for a real reason and I will NOT do some stupid online crap and download a game from the internet when it should be on the disc, offline-able, etc. I am already missing out enough online stuff, I don't wish to miss out on WHOLE games...

And if this does happen, then my dream job will change slightly... Yes, I am planning to become a Game Designer but I wont work for a Company who does this sort of crap and ruin so much... I rather run my own business, if possible, and create games on the CDs that isn't connected to none of this crap and trust me, I will try it. Do not underestimate me when I am pushed to do something. I repeat, do NOT underestimate me.

Also, someone said earlier about jobs.. Doing this will only destroy jobs. It wont even create new jobs!

To bad for them I've never in my LIFE clicked anything resembling a EULA for a console based video game, with the exception of FFXI, which was an MMORPG, hence why it had it. Even modern video games on consoles don't come with a EULA. I've never clicked, or signed anything stating I don't own the right to that particular copy of the video game for a console.

To the person who mentioned just playing the game constituted an agreement to the license, that would never hold up in court. If just reading a contract was enough to be legally binding, there would 10x as many lawsuits in the court system as there is now. Nope, a legally binding contract is only by signing or clicking ok, or a firm handshake(and that only holds up in court about half the time nowadays, and usually only in small-claims court at that). So, no, playing a console game does not constitute an agreement with the EULA, I imagine 90% of video gamers(or at least, in the older days) didn't even realize a EULA existed in their manuals, mainly because they didn't READ the manuals, and that was fairly common behavior back then.

@jusey1 though that could cause one to be banned from Bethesda & from any game dependent on steam

I suggest speaking out with both your voice & wallet

I said that, and I wasn't just pulling it out of the air, that's what it specifically states in the EULA of Skyrim's manual.

Exact quote:

"By clicking "I agree", by installing the product, or by accessing or using the product or other software, if any, provided to you on the package, you acknowledge that you have read all of the terms and conditions of this agreement, understand them, and agree to be legally bound by them"

You are right that making the customer click an "agreement" button before installation is the best way to make sure the EULA can be upheld. If simply installing the software automatically placed you in agreement then there are some courts that might over rule the EULA in those cases. I don't remember if Skyrim required an acceptance click before installation on my PS3 or not, but I would be shocked if there wasn't because it's a pretty easy legal 'safeguard'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProCD_v._Zeidenberg

In this case a US court of Appeals ruled that a EULA that is agreed to simply by clicking "okay" or "I agree" was a legally binding contract. A signature wasn't required.