The future of console gaming. : Othor Games

» Tue May 15, 2012 7:07 am

If this add stuff like this to the consoles...

~Pros~
Fighting Piracy.

~Cons~
GameStop may actually go out of business if it gets so bad that the companies will only sell games online and not as Game-CDs.
Riots and boycotts will most likely happen due to the fact that this is going against one of our freedoms (In USA).

People, like myself, who can't go online on consoles wont be able to get the new stuff.. So expect us being ****** off.

Children/Family games wont be made as much due to the fact that you can't play games without registering and that sort of stuff. Yeah, the parents may do this but what if they don't know how to?

Your Info will be on ANOTHER site/place where it doesn't need to be...

Room on this consoles are wasted due to a worthless add-on...

Etc.

Yeah. I am against this big time. All this will do is cause a crap load of problems and ****** people off. I will expect riots/boycotting in the future. Don't be surprise if it happens.

» Tue May 15, 2012 7:51 am

ever heard of steam? have daily sales on game new and old hell Skyrim was $30 on Christmas last year.

Steam has proven that having sales means more sales in general thus creating the same if not more money. So if MS and Sony makes their own systems (or they do use Steam and origin and similar) you may have to wait (as you do to find a used game) to get the game at a lower price is patience.

MS and Sony are selling games online now. And the only deals they give are on the games no one wants or super old titles. Do not kidd your self and think there are going to be steam like sales on the PS4 and 720!

Greg

» Tue May 15, 2012 6:10 am

Computer gamers have already lost, I hope console gamers can be herd and maybe stop this were its headed. Beware those who will tell you how great all this is, for they are leading the march. Traitors lol

» Tue May 15, 2012 1:09 am

Computer gamers have already lost,

This is why I changed me mind. I was planning to get Skyrim and a new computer but Skyrim is a Steam game on the computer.. And I don't feel like trying to find a way around it...

I am still a Computer Gamer but I'll play any games that isn't connected to Steam or other crap.

» Tue May 15, 2012 4:56 am

Moving on; Why are used games so bad?

Because it is a legal form of pirating. The same effect you have buying a used game from Gamestop GAME Game Xchange etc is has the same exact effect as you have downloading off the ARRGH BAY or some other site. No money part of that transaction reaches the developer/publisher of that game it all goes to that shady business used game store period. Publishers especially those who are already have started doing on PC for many years would jump on the chance to do so on console because while PC is a significant and growing share of the "gaming" population it still only a minority (including everything from handhelds to wii to 360/PS3) consoles still make up more in total then PC does alone and resell the market is large very large to point it hurts the industry more then it helps. Just because you do not have used games does NOT mean you cannot buy it at a lower price but it will mean a very drastic change in business practice of store such as gamestop GAME and gamexchange etc. which is needed badly right now. Of course they can stil be around they can change what they sell to run said content such as the new consoles or other platforms.

So once again as that one poster in the original link stated: It will help the industry overall but it will cost the consumer some more intrusive set up that they are use too now. Money will reach the publishers/developers of console games and will actually have after sell income vs first release only that they have had for countless years meaning more disposable income for future titles hopefully turning into better quality. While some games and developers scoff at any kind DRM such as CD Projeckt Red the majority that can afford a few "losses" because they do not like DRM will do it such companies include but not limited too EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Bethesda, Sega, Valve, Microsoft.

I as someone who buys used games only as a last resort, I disagree that selling used is piracy because it was bought & it's still one copy & not 10 or 10 million

"oh but the makers don't make any money"

but they did, then the original buyer used the investment to gain some money

Selling a used car is not theft nor is selling a used movie dvd

This is why I changed me mind. I was planning to get Skyrim and a new computer but Skyrim is a Steam game on the computer.. And I don't feel like trying to find a way around it...

I am still a Computer Gamer but I'll play any games that isn't connected to Steam or other crap.

I'm with you there & as such I started stepping up buying older (pre-internet requirement) games & even though the games may not have the most outstanding graphics & may be a tad finicky with win 7 I'm enjoying the gems I'm finding

» Tue May 15, 2012 10:22 am

Rest asured these roumors of no used games are probbaly true. There are too many websites reporting it for them not to be true. But I can asure you MS, Sony and the developers have no idea on how bad the reprocussion is going to be.

Because as it stands now, say a person goes to gamestop to trade in some used games on a new game. Well MS/Sony/Dev just made a sale, now say the game svcks and he brings it back to Gamestop and trades it in on another game. Guess what they just made another sale.

Now under the no used game rule, the same person has doubts on the game so he completly skips it. And hes not really sure about the next game as well so he skips that game too. Now MS/Sony/Dev just lost out on 2 sales. See where I am going with this?

Greg

» Tue May 15, 2012 9:09 am

Rest asured these roumors of no used games are probbaly true. There are too many websites reporting it for them not to be true. But I can asure you MS, Sony and the developers have no idea on how bad the reprocussion is going to be.

Because as it stands now, say a person goes to gamestop to trade in some used games on a new game. Well MS/Sony/Dev just made a sale, now say the game svcks and he brings it back to Gamestop and trades it in on another game. Guess what they just made another sale.

Now under the no used game rule, the same person has doubts on the game so he completly skips it. And hes not really sure about the next game as well so he skips that game too. Now MS/Sony/Dev just lost out on 2 sales. See where I am going with this?

Greg

The way they're looking at it they're also losing sales when people rent games, trade with their friends, sell them on eBay, etc. If they do decide to kill the used game market I'm sure it's based on market research that's telling them that they'll end up ahead. I don't agree with it, but they wouldn't make that kind of a decision without knowing what they're getting themselves into.

» Tue May 15, 2012 7:08 am

The way they're looking at it they're also losing sales when people rent games, trade with their friends, sell them on eBay, etc. If they do decide to kill the used game market I'm sure it's based on market research that's telling them that they'll end up ahead. I don't agree with it, but they wouldn't make that kind of a decision without knowing what they're getting themselves into.

unless the assumption they are using is flawed/incomplete

» Tue May 15, 2012 11:32 am

I want decent evidence that the companies will be making better games if they do this, if anything has shown so far they could make better game nows and justify any changes, rather than making rubbish and then saying oh yeah were screwing you and in the end we'll profiteer off you like we have so far, because no matter what you will always be desperate enough to buy our products. Again this is Sony trying to control of the market, they keep messing up, especially by being hacked, which this new system will only leave them even more open for cyber attacks by placing all your eggs in one basket.

» Tue May 15, 2012 1:13 am

The way they're looking at it they're also losing sales when people rent games, trade with their friends, sell them on eBay, etc. If they do decide to kill the used game market I'm sure it's based on market research that's telling them that they'll end up ahead. I don't agree with it, but they wouldn't make that kind of a decision without knowing what they're getting themselves into.

I dunno, Ubisoft's track record makes me doubt a company's "research" as accurate.

I want decent evidence that the companies will be making better games if they do this, if anything has shown so far they could make better game nows and justify any changes, rather than making rubbish and then saying oh yeah were screwing you and in the end we'll profiteer off you like we have so far, because no matter what you will always be desperate enough to buy our products. Again this is Sony trying to control of the market, they keep messing up, especially by being hacked, which this new system will only leave them even more open for cyber attacks by placing all your eggs in one basket.

It's not just Sony, Microsoft is likely going to implement the same thing.

» Tue May 15, 2012 12:25 pm

The way they're looking at it they're also losing sales when people rent games, trade with their friends, sell them on eBay, etc. If they do decide to kill the used game market I'm sure it's based on market research that's telling them that they'll end up ahead. I don't agree with it, but they wouldn't make that kind of a decision without knowing what they're getting themselves into.

A guy doing market reserch and real world are two different things. Consoles are so puoplar because of the used game market. 99% of console gamers have traded/sold/rented/bought a used game at one time or another.

Take that away and consoles are no different then pc. And trust me on this when it comes to putting food on the table or paying bills new games are going to loose that battle. A lot of gamers trade in their old games to get new games. And then little jhonnys mom goes to game stop to buy the used games, because they can not afford the new games.

Now you got people buying less new games and no one buying used games, which = less console/game sales either way. Its easy to say I only have $40 but if I trade this game in I can get a new game. With no used game and you only have $40, guess what your screwed!

The only way it will work is if MS and Sony have Steam like sales and I just don't see them selling new games for $5.

Greg

» Tue May 15, 2012 5:16 am

Well for starters theres is like a coalition of or a group of companies that joined together they were basically all console companies, blizzard was in there, it was run by sony, then sony started with their drm this drm that, we should control this with consoles that, so blizzard said byyyyyyeeeeee, we dont console. Of course Microsoft will they dont want to be left behind in a race to the bottom.

» Tue May 15, 2012 12:27 am

A guy doing market reserch and real world are two different things. Consoles are so puoplar because of the used game market. 99% of console gamers have traded/sold/rented/bought a used game at one time or another.

Take that away and consoles are no different then pc. And trust me on this when it comes to putting food on the table or paying bills new games are going to loose that battle. A lot of gamers trade in their old games to get new games. And then little jhonnys mom goes to game stop to buy the used games, because they can not afford the new games.

Now you got people buying less new games and no one buying used games, which = less console/game sales either way. Its easy to say I only have $40 but if I trade this game in I can get a new game. With no used game and you only have $40, guess what your screwed!

The only way it will work is if MS and Sony have Steam like sales and I just don't see them selling new games for $5.

Greg

Isn't speculation likely to be even less reliable than market research?

» Tue May 15, 2012 1:14 am

I dunno, Ubisoft's track record makes me doubt a company's "research" as accurate.

I must admit, I was thinking "this is a very UBiesque decision"

» Tue May 15, 2012 11:48 am

Isn't speculation likely to be even less reliable than market research?

It isnt speculation go hang out in gamestop for a hour and tell me how many parents are buying new games. I bet the vast majority are buying used games, I see it all the time. And there has been plenty of times where its been mid pay peroid and I wanted a new game but I didnt have enough so I traded some used games in on a new game. I know I am not the only one who does this or gamestop wouldnt have a used game market.

Greg

P.S. I bought 5 PC games this weekend for less then $30 and two of them were Bulletstorm & Crysis 2. Deals like this weekend is what drives PC gaming. Try that on a console!

» Tue May 15, 2012 8:10 am

You say that, but come the day some computer hacker takes out his failed physical existence on a companys server and wipes all it's information, you'd change your tune. I prefer physical media because it's a physical copy on hand without relying on third parties such as steam or a hard drive to ensure the information contained works. Also, what's so bad about used gaming? If it weren't for used gaming, I would never have found half of the games that I know and love. Unlike derptards, I don't buy games because they look like 'l33t 5h00t3r br0', if a friend has a game that looks appealing, I ask about it, do research, and then shop around for a bargain price. I'd much rather go through 'long lines' than deal with the reliance on a hackable machine holding my information.

Again, your reliance on other services to maintain a product you owns data is laughable.

I'm not a paranoid parrot in this case, but prevention of problems is helpful. Your hard drive corrupts and the data is unsalvagable, you conveniently have the info on a floppy disk to use. (Yes I know not many people use FDs in this age, but that's not the point. I find the over reliance on digital information over a hard source to be bizzare and causing complacency amongst people. So assured that their precious Apple/Steam/Whatever is infallible.

I'm probably alone in my cautious attitude around here, but I feel it's a very sound and understandable caution.

Nah your playing the long game. In time everything decays though. For critical things it's smart to have physical backup. People should backup all their stuff, but hey. What are you going to do. Most of them aren't so attached as people like us. Then again I have tons of hard cover pen and paper books around. I've got backup plans even if the computer goes down.

Edit
I don't back up my Steam games. Too many. Besides I have a suspicion if Steam was ever down that's the end. Hard copies be damned. You need Steam to play them even if they are a hard backup.

» Tue May 15, 2012 6:40 am

I've bought more second hand games than new games in my time. But seriously... Do you honestly think the people that made the game see a cent of a second hand game sale?

no, and neither are they any more entitled to getting paid twice for the same product than Car manufacturers have to charge me a royalty fee when i sell my car to some one else.

no one deserves to be paid twice for one product.

» Tue May 15, 2012 11:02 am

MS and Sony are selling games online now. And the only deals they give are on the games no one wants or super old titles. Do not kidd your self and think there are going to be steam like sales on the PS4 and 720!

Greg

MS and Sony have no competition at all in their online networks the systems themselves were not built entirely around it if PS4 and 720 ware then yes if Steam is added which possible or origin which will happen on the Wii U it isn't up to MS and Sony to determine the price its entirely up too the Publisher/developer and steam. As long as MS and Sony can make a share of the profits from any site they will like it. Hypothetically lets say Big game 45 is coming out its price on PC steam is $50 720/PS4 steam is $60 the standard prices for retail games today and Sony/MS still get that difference AkA "console tax" if not more because publisher no longer needs to pay for shipping complete shipping for every sell. On a later date Big Game 45 is on sale on PC for $30 720/PS4 its $40 still a discounted price but still MS and Sony as well as Big Game 45's publisher/developer still get revenue.

This scenario everyone wins of course consumers get a more restrictive copy and more intrusive network then they have currently. No new games will sell for $5 that doesn't even happen on Steam Skyrim sold a month later on Xmas for $35 which again could very well be $45 for a PS4/720 version. But the older title is (other call of duty because they think it is worth $60 even after the next installment released) the lower the price drops thus creating a myriad of sales that is controlled by publisher mainly but also adds revenue into Steam and the console publisher thus again more reason to pursue such because it is actually a sure way to get after release income.

no, and neither are they any more entitled to getting paid twice for the same product than Car manufacturers have to charge me a royalty fee when i sell my car to some one else.

no one deserves to be paid twice for one product.

While there similarities and US used car dealerships make up %75 of car sales. Games are different, a used game is in circulation companies such as Game, gamestop, gameXchange, etc pushes used game titles even if there are new copies available at the same price at times. Is that good business practice? I hope you don't think so because that is deliberately forcing money into that companies pocket instead into the respective publisher/developer of that content. Do you believe that locked areas that require a code bad? no matter how small such as RAGE has? I don't I expect a used car to be as structurally sound then a new one. Games never loose the "quality" they do not degrade if any thing they improve overtime due to patches having content locked because you did not give money to publisher/developer is fine with me.

» Tue May 15, 2012 9:33 am

no, and neither are they any more entitled to getting paid twice for the same product than Car manufacturers have to charge me a royalty fee when i sell my car to some one else.

no one deserves to be paid twice for one product.

Next it will be cars. The steering wheel and ignition will lock up if sold to a used car dealership.

» Tue May 15, 2012 1:09 am

Next it will be cars. The steering wheel and ignition will lock up if sold to a used car dealership.

then homes, the key will be replaced by a combo/fingerprint/retinal/DNA scanner & requre internet access (broadband recommended) & registration with a security company

» Tue May 15, 2012 5:55 am

MS and Sony have no competition at all in their online networks the systems themselves were not built entirely around it if PS4 and 720 ware then yes if Steam is added which possible or origin which will happen on the Wii U it isn't up to MS and Sony to determine the price its entirely up too the Publisher/developer and steam. As long as MS and Sony can make a share of the profits from any site they will like it. Hypothetically lets say Big game 45 is coming out its price on PC steam is $50 720/PS4 steam is $60 the standard prices for retail games today and Sony/MS still get that difference AkA "console tax" if not more because publisher no longer needs to pay for shipping complete shipping for every sell. On a later date Big Game 45 is on sale on PC for $30 720/PS4 its $40 still a discounted price but still MS and Sony as well as Big Game 45's publisher/developer still get revenue.

This scenario everyone wins of course consumers get a more restrictive copy and more intrusive network then they have currently. No new games will sell for $5 that doesn't even happen on Steam Skyrim sold a month later on Xmas for $35 which again could very well be $45 for a PS4/720 version. But the older title is (other call of duty because they think it is worth $60 even after the next installment released) the lower the price drops thus creating a myriad of sales that is controlled by publisher mainly but also adds revenue into Steam and the console publisher thus again more reason to pursue such because it is actually a sure way to get after release income.

I can asure you new games (not new releases and even then steam discounts new release games all the time.) are sold for $5 all the time on PC. I just bought Bulletstorm for $5 this weekend on steam.

No used games is not going to work unless MS/Sony plans on doing deep discounts like steam on new games on the PS4 and 720. I have 76 PC games and I can count on one hand, how many games I own that are not sale games. PC game sales is what drives the PC game market!

Greg

» Mon May 14, 2012 11:20 pm

I can asure you new games (not new releases and even then steam discounts new release games all the time.) are sold for $5 all the time on PC. I just bought Bulletstorm for $5 this weekend on steam.

No used games is not going to work unless MS/Sony plans on doing deep discounts like steam on new games on the PS4 and 720. I have 76 PC games and I can count on one hand, how many games I own that are not sale games. PC game sales is what drives the PC game market!

Greg

Bulletstorm is not new it is a year old. PC games sales has proven to be profitable if such is offered to the majority of gamers wouldn't you believe NOT doing so would be a stupid move?

» Tue May 15, 2012 1:59 am

Bulletstorm is not new it is a year old. PC games sales has proven to be profitable if such is offered to the majority of gamers wouldn't you believe NOT doing so would be a stupid move?

Your not understanding me or I am not explaning it right, so ill try again. I bought bullet storm new, not as a new release for $5 on PC this weekend. The game sells for $http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/games/bulletstorm/77658new on the 360! How many people do you think would have bought the game this weekend on steam if the price was still $19.99. Because steam discounted the game down to $5 they sold a ton of copies.

If MS/Sony keep the current price structure they are not going to sell a whole lot of games. PC game sales depend on having sales, right now you can buy Risen 2 with the DLC for $40 on Green Man Gaming. I do not see Gamestop, Amazon or any other place discounting the game for consoles. Now do you get what I am trying to say?

Greg

» Tue May 15, 2012 2:28 am

Your not understanding me or I am not explaning it right, so ill try again. I bought bullet storm new, not as a new release for $5 on PC this weekend. The game sells for $http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/games/bulletstorm/77658new on the 360! How many people do you think would have bought the game this weekend on steam if the price was still $19.99. Because steam discounted the game down to $5 they sold a ton of copies.

If MS/Sony keep the current price structure they are not going to sell a whole lot of games. PC game sales depend on having sales, right now you can buy Risen 2 with the DLC for $40 on Green Man Gaming. I do not see Gamestop, Amazon or any other place discounting the game for consoles. Now do you get what I am trying to say?

Greg

We are crossing arguments now. Your trying to prove your own point but also helping mine as well.

Lets hypothetically steam was on 360 at this instance. bulletstorm on PC was $5 a week ago but on 360 it was $10 on steam. Difference between PC and console is on PC only EA and Valve get the profits no other party is involved console however you have another party in this case its Microsoft because PC is not owned by anyone where as Console are thus the possibility of the console counterpart costing more as majority of games are now days.

I am talking only about digital distribution here such as Steam on a console. Of course Gamestop,Amazon, retail in general cannot sell you a game for $5 that alone is the shipping price let alone any profit they get from the "new game" they are supposedly selling. But if a digital distribution network is set up on next gen console sells such as my scenario suggest will be very much possible to do so thus creating after release revenue a for sure source of it that Steam, origin, Capsule, etc has provided for publishers/developers alike on PC for several years.

» Tue May 15, 2012 6:51 am

We are crossing arguments now. Your trying to prove your own point but also helping mine as well.

Lets hypothetically steam was on 360 at this instance. bulletstorm on PC was $5 a week ago but on 360 it was $10 on steam. Difference between PC and console is on PC only EA and Valve get the profits no other party is involved console however you have another party in this case its Microsoft because PC is not owned by anyone where as Console are thus the possibility of the console counterpart costing more as majority of games are now days.

I am talking only about digital distribution here such as Steam on a console. Of course Gamestop,Amazon, retail in general cannot sell you a game for $5 that alone is the shipping price let alone any profit they get from the "new game" they are supposedly selling. But if a digital distribution network is set up on next gen console sells such as my scenario suggest will be very much possible to do so thus creating after release revenue a for sure source of it that Steam, origin, Capsule, etc has provided for publishers/developers alike on PC for several years.

I have already said that if they new sell console games the way they sell PC games. Then the consoles will thrive, heck I will even ditch PC gaming myself. But if they keep the current console pricing structure its not going to work. People are not going to be willing to take a chance on a $20 game they same way they would a $5 game. And when your talking about a new release $60~$70 game (new console game price are roumored to be $70) people are defentally not going to take chances and only stick with the games they know they like.

Greg