I thought I was pretty clear. If you want black metal that isn't entwined in extreme political or religious ideologies, your choices are pretty much hipster black metal (although even stuff like Wolves in the Throne Room is pretty extreme, just in a different way) or far-right wing (often racist or racialist) lunacy. Even the more "mainstream" bands like Gorgoroth, Emperor and Burzum have varying degrees of ties to extremist movements. This isn't exactly a big secret...

I thought it was generally accepted that most of the grim overlords in service of the devil arent really being serious... Personally, I find the DSBM bands going on about the joys of suicide are more distateful than some dude shrieking about satan. Black metal does not begin and end with Bertzum, you know?

Furthermore, even the supposedly National Socialst bands, if you bother to do any research whatsoever; usually have nothing all that offensive in their lyrics. Theres nothing inherently wrong with pride in your nation and heritage... Not that it matters to me if the band members privately engage in satanic rituals or read Mein Kampf every day...

I mean, goodness. Listen to the pure HATE spewed out by this pagan NS black metal band. its truly repulsive...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LhEGFGG1Ig

I just don't really understand why you care. One of the main themes of black metal has always been Satan and evil, and even then 90% of the bands that have a thematic focus on that don't take it seriously.

Also, it's considered extreme metal often for more reasons than just the music. Do you expect people making black metal to be ultra PC, out to save the world losers?

It's not generally accepted, and they are very serious. The Emperor, Burzum, Dissection murders would be your first clue. They aren't joking.

I'm not talking about dudes like Akercocke, here. I'm talking about the underground BM scene, and yes, many of them are real Neo-Nazis with real ties to real Neo-Nazi terrorist groups in France, the UK, and Scandinavia. Even a cursory look into the sub culture should tell you that.


I still listen to it, but I do prefer not to give my money to right wing extremists, the same way I wouldn't give it David Duke and the KKK.

I could give a rat's ass about Satanism. That's NOT what I'm talking about.

You have no idea what you are on about...

I judge music on the music, thats all that really matters. period. And I certainly dont cherry pick a few examples to color the entire scene with negative connotations... this is why hipsters have no buisness taking black metal and attempting to redefine it or make it positive. Go listen to Porcupine tree.

I can't believe I'm arguing about something so completely and utterly obvious. You either know nothing about black metal, or you just stuff your fingers in your ears every time this issue comes up.

Oh, we're talking about Nazis now. You honestly sound like someone that has just recently discovered black metal and think all of the scary stories about black metal musicians are true. Yes, Varg killed a guy, the dude from Emperor killed a guy, the dude from Dissection killed himself, but for the most part, that stuff doesn't happen. Most of the BM musicians that parade NS ideologies are nerds that would have been considered Untermensch, not terrorists by a long shot.

burning churches is the only way to eradicate the oppressive scourge of Christianity in favor of the liberating force of all-consuming Nationalism.

That's why I like to keep my music and politics/religion separate. When you try to discuss certain genres, someone always brings religion or politics into it. Black Metal is one of those genres.

Sure, some of the bands are "in on the joke" but there are many fans of the genre and obviously some of the bands that take the extremism very seriously.

You gotta admit, playing in San Quentin is pretty [censored] metal (whether real or not the IDEA is metal). And their earlier albums are pretty awesome.

No, I've just spent enough time at underground black metal shows to be able to call a spade a spade. Go to something like a Horna show and look at who's in the audience, what their wearing, and what kind of pamphlets they're handing out. It's very much there, it's just denied by band members or not answered directly in interviews. I may have exaggerated the extent to which it's around in the scene as a whole, but when you have heavyweights like Varg Vikernes openly supporting white supremacists, and 90% of the scene either denying it or refusing to speak out about it, it starts to look a lot smaller than it actually is. That's just a fact I think people should consider when they think about what band they're going to spend money on.



Look out guys, we've got a TRVE KVLT badass here. Do whatever you want, just don't get butthurt when I point out one of the huge problems with black metal. It's just a "buyer beware" notification I like to give before I recommend some of the shadier bands.

In regards to metallica, in all seriousness... They are truly overrated. Criminally so. Even their so called classic albums follow a formula they started with ride the lightning, MoP and Justice are just sequels to them. Sure, they have a few great songs but overall theres much more fluff and filler. And their subsequent betrayal of everything they once stood for, its unforgivable imo.

Dead killed himself because he suffered from mental and emotional instability (nothing to do with black metal) and Varg burnt down hundred-year-old churches because they were intentionally built on the thousand-year-old worship grounds of his ancestors. Also, Varg killed Aarseth because he attacked him without warning, the crazy bastard had it coming. Don't judge so easily man.

Go ahead and try to reccomend me a 'shady' band that I havent already heard of, listed in every 13 year old's favorite list of true black metal.

Haha, "buyer beware" notification.

Dude...I gotta say we agree on a lot of things.

I don't recall recommending anything to you in this thread, nor do I recall saying anything to you about black metal at all, until you replied to me. But I'm glad to see you're still playing the TRVE KVLT "I know every band you know" card.

if you have a lastFM account, send me a request. And if you are interested in joining an extremely un-PC metal forum for fans who are more interested in music than anything else, PM me. just make sure to bring your flame retardant. Feelings are not welcome there and nobody is ever banned.

Not all black metal is satanic and nazi. A lot of bands are pagans and nationalists, so what the [censored]?! They can't be proud of who they are and where they came from? Being proud of that does not mean wishing to eradicate all other nations and considering yourself inherently superior to everyone else.

Hipster metal heads don't have arguments like this guys! We just chill out and listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_U2ZFe1wtc while being all passive agressive!

I'll just say that, yes, nationalism and racialism (as opposed to racism) are pretty damn repugnant to me and leave it at that. I didn't want to start a political discussion, I just posted my original spiel to cover my ass because Sapthuran has been known to have ties to NSBM bands. That's it.

Well we're not hipster metal-heads, kay? Kay.

The turn this conversation has taken put me in the mood for

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWOMkosYySk

-a band that I can never spell the name of properly no matter how hard I try, so I dont even bother.

Your loss. I'll be over here wearing socially acceptable clothing and svcking off John Baizley.

I know the back story behind it, man. I wasn't trying to sound judgemental. I know they had emotional/mental problems and it's a shame that things had to go down like that. I know it probably isn't fair to all black metal bands to judge them based on that incident, but the burning of historical sites is a hard thing to forgive. It's the same kind of crap that has going on in the "holy land" for 1000s of years. It's pointless and destructive.

Anyway, like I said. I don't want to talk about politics or religion. Compared to music, I find both subjects boring anyway and you hear the same dull arguments and polarized statements like an old computer program GOTO statement in an infinite loop.

Sometimes art is about destruction, but when you are destroying someone else's art, whether architecture, music, whatever, it can make people less likely to want to appreciate your own creations.

Oh and here are a couple Black Metal musicians who seem to be "in on the Joke." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR4rRbE0NWg