You appear to be confused. Your link shows how you can abuse enchanting to reduce spell costs to 0, also how you can get 1500 damage reduction by exploiting skill bonuses to enchanting and blacksmithing.

However your link doesn't address the basic issue that Destruction spells in particular are useless since they barely hit even dent the massive health pools the NPC's walk around with.

Also the hilarious side effect of the various ways which you can boost magic, is that the best mage build doesn't spend any level ups on Magica. Another thing I'd like to make quite clear, is that defending magic by saying that Conjuration and Illusion are still useful, is rather irrelevant. Since we're comparing the basic fighting styles.

Conjuration and Illusion are utility, nothing prevents you from using the Conjuration/Illusion spells right before you charge in with your weapons.

Yes, however all the people saying "But the NPC mages are ZOMG scary, how can magic be UP!?!?" seem to miss these basic game concepts.

How many of the people playing mages here are summoning and going into combat, or using a companion? When I get into a straight heads up fight, I back off and blast fire or ice while Lydia does the dirty work and it;s great.

If you're a caster you have a huge array of spells at your disposal but if you aren't using them because you choose not to, then you may have to deal with consequences.

Different People, different Playstyles.

Many people are Full Mages and are owning.
Many people are Full Warriors and are owning.
Many people are Full Thief/Assassin and are owning.

You just need to think out of the box, use the environment (And maybe the help of a Companion/Shout).
Of course some builds will offer Maximum Damage but that doesn't mean that that Build is the best of all, after all, this is a Single Player Game. The Balance doesn't need to focus in making each Build easy, it must focus in making each Build fun to play.

People are expecting the game to be centered around them and their class (Like Oblivion) but the game is not centered around them (Like Morrowind/Skyrim)

takes too long for npcs to kill each other, warriors just faceroll through.

well...one thing is true, there are certain enemies that REALLY dont care about your spells (chaurus....) but then again, these dont care a lot about anything...and the only viable strategy i found so far is finding a place they cant reach and hit em with arrows (still takes quite some time but at least they do take damage)

It's just that warriors can faceroll while mages will struggle. That's where the imbalance comes in. This is supposed to be a game of choice but many mages are struggling compared to warriors. Check out my faceroll with warrior here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0HBpm3WEE0

I'd like to do that. However a combination of three issues makes that impossible after about lvl 10:

*Companions are [censored] and will always walk right infront of your spell casting
*Companions health doesn't scale
*All your spells beyond Apprentice are AoE

Even after enchanting Lydia some gear for 50-70% fire resistance, throwing fireballs at the enemy is still a very quick way to kill her off and be forced to reload again.

Yea mages and spells are weak but ALOT more fun than the boring button mash warrior. And for me fun beats boredom.

To the poster saying 'Conjuration and Illusion are utility spells and don't count' you're way off base. Any intelligent combatant is going to do whatever they can to have the fight in their favor. If I have to summon an army of Atronachs to take down the final boss, I abso-friggin-lutely will!

Now, if someone wants to use ONLY Destruction magic and is struggling, that's on them. If you want to come in and complain 'game won't let me own the way I want to' then check out Neopets or something. As a player you need to adapt your strategy to fit the landscape and if they had made a game where I could lock pick everything to death, it would be the easiest/most boring game imaginable. Open your mind, get creative and go kill some shiat!

I agree that a lot are more fun but it really discourages people to try full mages when you can just faceroll with warrior.

what should i be increasing if I'm a rogue? That's where I'm confused. Rogues are usually high dexterity lower health. There are no traditional stats. It's health, magic, stamina. I've been bumping stamina because fora rogue I thought that would make sense. But the thing is lighter weapons use less stamina I think, so I have no idea what I should be increasing.

It just seemd to me Health would be for a warrior class. Magic for a mage. Stamina for a rogue?

So you based balance of three character archtypes on toe-to-toe combat and were surprised that the warrior came out on top?

They don't count because they're irrelevant to the issue at hand.

In the end you're going to kill the enemy with either a weapon, or a spell. Destruction is the spell school that does damage, if the Destruction school doesn't work, and it doesn't, then you're forced to kill the enemy with weapons.

That's not necessarily bad per see. There's nothing wrong with combining weapons and utility magic, the issue is that the game makes it appear as if killing enemies with magic works, but it doesn't.

My character is specced as a full mage, but I kill things faster when I take out my bow then when I throw fireballs, do you not see something wrong in this picture?

I myself am a Pure Mage and I'm finding the challenge VERY fun and rewarding. I love the fact that I need to think and use tactics and not just go in and use my axe like a Warrior.
A Mage should not even allow that his opponent reach him in the first place. That's why I Double-Wield Destruction to Stagger then again and again. A Pure Mage is a Glass Cannon. A Thinker, a Tactician, not a... Barbarian.

There are many fun ways to play as a Mage, maybe you don't found yours yet.
(Or not appreciate the challenge)

Officially the WoW forums now.

This is my first game of these series, so I'm blaming it on that; but I don't even know how to actively train all those skills you just summed up. After reading this I'm not even sure if I'm playing this game correctly; I just complete quests, Range, Mage, and Melee when necessary, and explore new things, be amazed by the graphics, all that good stuff. I'm not sure if this makes any sense; but maybe because Magic has so many other benefits it isn't as powerful? (You can summon monsters, and undead, and you can heal yourself).

So you are a rogue with heavy armor? High health and magic? This is what I don't get. Isn't that a warrior with stealth abilities and magic? I'm assuming you use lighter weapons that dont use as much stamina?

mages don't scale well in this game, its a well known fact by now. Several edited character tests such as the OP's prove this as a fact.


at higher levels the other 2 archetypes will be killing faster without having to use 5second cast, heavy drain spells.

BTW: that enchant trick that gives you a basically infinite magicka bar won't help you kill nearly as fast as a rogue or warrior on higher levels.

double post*

Regardless of what you play, Health is the most important stat by far. Reasons are simple.

1) Since the only way to improve spellcasting is by spell cost reductions, magicka eventually becomes completely useless as your casting costs approach 0.
2) Stamina is only used for power attacks, and you're usually not going to make many of those since they're a pain to land.

I think i'm just totally confused by the character build system right now. It's not traditional by any means. It's almost like you have to think backwards. If you are a mage you don't want to put points into magicka and just concentrate on that skill tree. If you are a rogue you want to bump the other stats and ignore stamina and concentrate on the stealth tree. Am I correct?

You could legitamently have a rogue with heavy weapons and armor and high health and magic abilities. Which isn't realy a rogue. Same with a mage with heavy armor. But that's the way the game wants you to play to have the best character possible.

Use a dagger for situations when stealthed and use a heavy weapon in battle.

Why use light armor at all?

mages are worse than warriors from the start to end except in closer to the end warriors gets better gear, furthering the power gap.

Uh, can't this problem be removed by wearing Heavy Armor as a mage? That way, you have protection and a good damage output?

Ok. so the way i play is like this. I go into a room of, lets say 4 bandits, I have my hireling mage with me. So i start by casting my fury spell on 2 of them to make them attack each other. As soon as one dies i raise him from the dead. by the time the zombie dies it and my hireling have managed to kill another. 2 down, 2to go. So i gulp down a strong magika potion (if my magika is low that is). Now i use my fear spell to sent em running! as their backs are tured i pop out another high damage destruction spell . that + hireling damage = 1 bandit 2 go. this is the hard part. no magika and mabye low health. Now for some old fashioned kiteing as my magika recharges. as soon as i get enough i raise the dead to finish the last bandit off. Bam! now that is good mage skills right there. Ps. Always take down the archers first.

takes too long, warrior = charge in + faceroll everything in half the time. no potions required.