errr....basically not only a virtual world streching 500 square miles with HDR, and rabbits crossing my way, but a mostly interactive world.
At some point in Skyrim i started to predict the behavior of NPC i did encounter, since it was the same, once you know them. At that point I had to stop playing, because I felt this was ...well boring?

I am not a MMORPG player, and certainly I just stick with ES, if I am playing RPG, unless I bring up my memories of old school rpg like Bards Tale and else.

so are you saying the standard you set doesn't exist within the industry?

Skyrim has it's fault but it's the closest "true open world rpg" out now. There's no other game that offers such a vast vivid world that you can explore at your leisure.

Wait. I didn't say I do set a standard. The standard was set by Bethesda saying you could play Skyrim 300 hours and even encounter new content.
But as I said, I got bored after 10 hours of gameplay by recognizing the stuff I mentioned. Saying that every encounter is new, well, I guess, there is room for improvements.

Example:
the kids run around the same path round and round, is there no variation?

If I could set a standard, I would make 3 villages and one big dungeon, but take care of that the game would not become this repetitive.

oh yeah I remmember them taking about the game being insane after they had really great AI people in towns killed eachother and did crazy and absurd things

won't happen until quantum computing is in the household.

I have run into a couple of sutuations in the game like with the three bandits dressed in imperial garb that stepped out from behind a big boulder to ask me to pay the "toll". I killed them and found the bodies of the emperials nearby. It may not be as advanced as you are asking for but it was a nice touch. There are other such instances in Skyrim that are totally random and add to the feeling of a more realistic game world. However what you ask for isn't going to happen any time soon due to the economics behind gaming atm. If you've read any of the articles written about gaming AI and where it's headed you already know that, for financial reasons, they just don't put a ton of time into developing it. It's not just Bethesda. It's all the game makers that do this. AI in games has a long, long way to go to have the type of behaviours you are asking for. Until the entire industry starts pushing in that direction we aren't going to see anything much better. Oh they'll add the neato trick here and there but nothing ground breaking. Evetually it will happen but that's a ways down the road from what I've read.

As far as open world goes I don't understand those arguments. Skyrim is as open world as you're likely to get from anyone. I can literally look out at the game world and go anywhere I see. it doesn't get any more open that that.

I don't think Bethesda lacks the imagination to come up with ideas like this on their own, so posting a thread about it is likely going to get you (or their game nowhere.) You'd be better off signing them a huge check (read: lots of 0's on the end of it) so they can take 5-10 years to code all of it, as that's probably their bigger issue on why they don't include the thousands of ideas everyone comes up with. Just sayin.

Tell you what:

Why don't you work on creating a mod that does all this? Then you can collect your prize money from whoever handles the Turing Test these days.

quantum computing goes with quantum bills, lol.

Ye, I know, thanks for the description, I encountered this already. But I cover this in the answer below.


Don't assume that I am not aware of the possibilities the current CK offers.
the big OOP aspect makes promises a lot. But this is not everything, some not-so-well aspects are:
- the CK still starts with bugs, and the navmesh bug is not ironed out
- CK offers only the stuff already in Skyrim, mostly statics.
- I have no possibility to create new meshes or new animations with the CK only
- CK could check for Blender, Maya or 3ds and open the mesh there and you'll start making new meshs and animations, but nada.
- AI packages can be split up into procedures, it is a small advance, but you are never able to have the meshes and their animations be aware of their environment ( a big flaw imho)
(the los command is still only referring to the player, you cant check a position or a certain area to be out-of-sight from a certain spot)

The last point is what I am assuming a true open world. not a terrain textured 5k square miles plane to explore for height differences and a nice cloud bitmap moving by, but interactivity.
Preliminary would be to be able to make new animations for the meshes, at least. The CK doesn't offer an easy way here. Meshes, nada, textures, nada, animations, nada.
And please don't tell me the workarounds, because none of them is supported by Bethesda. thinking bout the .nif format and how they are painstakingly deciphered, makes me shiver.
Open World here may refer to make something new?

+1

Do I sense subtle irony here?
Actually this concerns work to be done in order to improve a game!

If you want to complain about a lack of interactivity and meaningful choices that's fine, but redefining "open world" isn't the way to win arguments about it. Skyrim's world is as open as games get. Skyrim is also an RPG. So yes, it's a true open-world RPG.

Sadly, it's just not possible to create a big 3D game world and run a simulation of everything occurring in it in real time and have it playable on a majority of current PCs and consoles. It would be more workable with simpler graphics, but gamers don't seem to want that. Skyrim does still do a better job of world simulation than most games. Look at all the games where people and vehicles disappear when they go around the corner; you won't see that in Skyrim.

Jesus Christ. Now I have to explain the third time that I am not referring to a simulation as there already is in ES since Oblivion ( what I did notice!)
Why do you argue a simulation is negative a put it onto me? Havok is a physics simulation engine, and it is already in and everybody likes it!
Maybe you are one of those that like to impose someone like me being the crazy dude for playing games, while Bethesda is selling this game and talking bout 300 hours of gameplay for ppl like you?
I was talking about game mechanics, and there is nothing to simulate! Game mechanics cant be simulated! Get it.

Well, at least we know they tried: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjbx6-KQoRg
It worked in Oblivion's E3 demo, but it didn't work in Oblivion (2006) and it doesn't work in Skyrim (2011). Who knows how many years we need to wait until the real Radiant AI comes alive, but at least it's reassuring that they know where they're going with AI, I mean look at Bioware, their characters are so great but outside dialogue they're just sitting ducks, they're no better than information terminals on the walls.

TES was never about AI baddies who can anticipate your invasive wandering and set up tactical positions. TES was and is about happening upon some bandits in a fort on a routine fort day, or two adventurers arguing about going into a dungeon, or a nord who had his axe stolen by a witch who is either North or Northeast.

It would be a complete drain on your gaming computer if all AI enemies had this special brainpower that plans and schemes in readiness for your arrival. And what of their npc enemies? It would be very disappointing to have them capable of ambushing you, but not each other. And AI that heavy would burden your processor and allow less actors in the area. The better way at this time for events like this is to keep it small by scripting the event so that it triggers when you enter the area.

As for AI using tactics and exploiting the terrain and positions - that job is more suited to games like Shogun 2: Total War, and other games that want to focus on strategy.

LOL, I guess this was the only in-house selling deluxe version! Why make a noise, when everybody outside buys less?

yep look up oblivion e3 demo for an example of the AI. I believe Bethesda stated that they have good AI for these games but it is hard for these games to keep track of all their npcs actions and such and some of there actions lead to npcs dying and other disasters, this is why I believe the AI is so simple

now that I think about it i shudder to think how bad skyrim lag would be in towns with raidiant ai

Oh noes, the Todd video again! I thought they removed it from the webz.

Though T.H. seems like a nice employee, I definitely doubt that he is responsible for this part at gamesas, game mechanics and AI.
Rather I doubt it is me. But I would like to see some movement here. Reminds me of the tale of the rabbit and the turtle....

the only game I can remember that was really really close to be an open world RPG was Gothic 2.
skyrim is more an open world dungeon crawler/action RPG.

I had a similar situation with fake Traders who said they`d be attacked by bandits. After the fight, found the real dead Traders thrown halfway down the back of a hill.

And there times the AI does attempt stuff on you, like ambushes for instance, the spider will try to hide in wait and ambush you on the road. i`m a bit rushed for time for examples, but I`d say Skyrim was defintely open world enjoyable if you don`t FT.

Oh, I liked the neat transitions in Gothic 2, which...weren't...

well, didn't they use enough force to throw#em further than halfway down?
Perhaps there was one of those rock meshes, which kept them from falling further...the edgy stiff ones, I watched them blocking NPCs since ever. Small but big are their impact.

there could be that you as a player stumble upon them before they have the chance to dispose of the bodies?

Also have had various encounters like these, anything from assassin's hiding, to thieves trying to roba fellow guildmember, to soldiers wanting toll, animal hiding and trying to ambush me.

Not seen any NPC's getting stuck on rock meshes tho, most of thems imply walks around it from what I have experienced.