How so? He is famous for beinng perhaps the only living person that is not a Dragonborn or Greybeard that know the Thu'um so Torygg would have known, and the traditions of Skyrim goes back to a time when a warleader was(as far as I have understood it) expected to know the Thu'um. Seems likely that the Voice is not an ability fthat would be penalized in a duel, since it was central to their culture.

Torygg knew Ulfric knew the voice and expected him to fight fair

Even if there is a Shout that can do that, Ulfric doesn't know it. He knows two: Unrelenting Force and Disarm. Neither one results in the target being ripped apart.

You should note that any time you hear someone refer to Torygg being shouted to pieces by Ulfric's voice, the line is always prefaced with "They say..." meaning that what you are being told is something the NPC heard someone else say, not what they actually witnessed (and obviously not something that anyone witnessed, because Ulfric doesn't have the ability to do it). It's gossip, pure and simple, and if it's not as pure and simple as that then it's propaganda being spread deliberately by the opposition.

In answer to the OP's question: no, I don't think it was murder either. A challenge was issued and accepted.

If it was murder under "Imperial law" as some claim, then it would have been just as much a homicide if Torygg had been the victor and to portray him as the innocent victim simply because he lost is unfair and unsound. I doubt that the Empire would've pursued and punished Torygg for breaking this alleged law had Ulfric been the one who ended up dead... no, he would've been put down in the books as a brave and hardy warrior who defended his throne from an arrogant usurper, because that's what happens when "your man" wins. When the other guy wins, all of a sudden a crime has been committed because it gives you the pretense of moral authority when you try to take him down.

I'm an Empire loyalist but I still say that killing Torygg wasn't murder. Since murder is the UNLAWFUL killing of another person, it means that you must look towards Skyrim's law. Skyrim's law states that two people can duel to the death. Ulfric may be a racist nationalist and a cheater of the duel since he used the Thu'um, it still counts in Skyrim's law.

The only reason that people call Ulfric a murderer is because of the context in which he murdered Torygg. It basically sparked the beginning of the Civil War.

ya but come on its like bringing a bow to a sword fight.

ya but come on its like bringing a bow to a sword fight.

If they both had the same weapons, it's fine. It's more like fighting dirty than unfairly.

Killing another person, for any reason, even justified, is murder. The deciding factor is if people wanted said murder or not. If everyone is okay with a justified murder, then no punishment will be issued.

Simple.

I was just quoting what said in skyrim they "they say he ripped the high king limb from limb using his voice"

Murder, yes but the Nords are essentially a warrior culture, and the king needs to be able to kill his enemies. What about Skyrim if the nords from Atmora just try to dialogue the land and with the Elves? Torygg was a King because the Empire made him king, for he was loyal to THE EMPIRE. But in troubled times, even the empire's influence is weak in Skyrim, and the nord culture made it clear when Ulfric killed Torygg... I doubt Ulfric is the first to learn with the Greybeards and break the Oath, and possibly others have just as well used to Thu'um to weaken their adversaries. The duel was fair and honorable, the Empire has challenged the entire province signing the treaty, and is arrogant to assume the nords would give up their most precious god just so that the Emperor can sleep in his favorite bed in the Imperial City. Now if Torygg was indeed weak and could not stand against Ulfric(in fair nord tradition duel), well that just proves the point that he should not be High King, in Skyrim.

Ulfric's way of becoming High king is even worse, his idea of becoming high king is by pushing out the Empire, setting up puppet jarls and using his fanatical army to oppress them.

The problem is it wasn't a duel, Torygg didn't even get a chance to defend himself. He was cut down after being forced down by Ulfric's Thu'um, it was unfair because Torygg can't defend against it nor could he have countered it. Its literally bringing a cannon to a sword fight and the person with the sword is tied up.

You know this is pretty much exactly what the Thalmor, Tiber Septim and Titus Mede I did too right? It is simply how power change in the world and it is also very similar to how power struggles worked in Europe. The Empire will also put puppet Jalrs in the cities so Elisif is no better than Ulfric here.

Torygg admits he knew he was going to lose. Doesn't seem to matter whether Ulfric used the thu'um or just regular weapons. I believe he was trying to show the Nords that they have power in their ancient traditions they're not using, and that he's got the stuff to lead them.

Not a murderer but a wuss.

I think it was intended to be fair but ulfric kinda cheated with the voice, ripping him apart limb by limb....

I think it was intended to be fair but ulfric kinda cheated with the voice, ripping him apart limb by limb....

Torygg admits he knew he was going to lose. Doesn't seem to matter whether Ulfric used the thu'um or just regular weapons. I believe he was trying to show the Nords that they have power in their ancient traditions they're not using, and that he's got the stuff to lead them.

Another reason why i hate people calling Torygg a baby or "weak", he knew he was going to die if he accepted Ulfrics challenge, he knew if he just refused the challenge he would have lived, but he didin't step down, you know how strong you have to be to go threw with something like this?

Oh i know, I actually find it kind of ironic that people overlook it so much, but the thing is the empire doesn't use force to make them come to decisions, if they did then Elisif would've been the high queen a lot sooner whole Ulfric makes them all agree or they die or get tossed out of office, I'm more willing to believe he would kill them then let them live and make an example so the other Jarls don't cross him..

Probably but wouldn't it have been much more honorable if the duel was fair and not a quick slaughter then Ulfric fleeing the city before anyone could do anything?

Another reason why i hate people calling Torygg a baby or "weak", he knew he was going to die if he accepted Ulfrics challenge, he knew if he just refused the challenge he would have lived, but he didin't step down, you know how strong you have to be to go threw with something like this?