My question is this

Is Ulfric a strong leader to unify the fragmented empire and take the fight to the Thalmor?

Its contentious subject. Has he even thought that far ahead??

Answers and opinions please.

no, only dragonborn can kick thalmors butt

His plan is not to reunite the Empire, but to make Skyrim an independent Kingdom once again.

As for his planning, I think he may have:

After he was given the throne of his father he started to speak out against the Empire, even on the Moot that elected Torygg High KIng. In other words: Every noble in the country knew his position n the issue.
Around the same time or sometime later what would later become the Stormcloaks was founded as a military order in service to Ulfric.
By the time he killed Torygg he had a military basis as well as most nobles would have made up their mind as to how much they agreed with his views. The death of Torygg literally split the nation in half and it seems to be planned from my perspective.
If nothing else, he is very skilled at the political game of Skyrim.

Not this crap again.

We've had dozens of threads on this subject!

But will the Thalmor just allow Ulfric and the stormcloaks to control skyrim as an independent state? If the Thalmor want elven supremacy then leaving Skyrim alone once it establishes itself as an independent state seems unlikely. Especially as it was the first home to man. I think that the stormcloaks would have to fight the elves sooner or later.

Nonsense!!! There's always room for more! let the bloodbath begin!! -takes out popcorn-

Assuming the Stormcloaks win the civil war.. yuck..

He's a good general. A fantastic general, but he's a terrible civil leader, and Windhelm's horribly run down state is proof of that. Let him lead the armies, but someone else needs to be High King or Queen.

Oh, and he's a jerk too

I really hope they start putting the CW/Ulfric/Tullis/Empire/Stormcloak stuff into one thread, like they did with the PS3 stuff. It's a very contentious subject that's lead to countless arguments, and I'm sure more than a few bad feelings.

Yes, sorry. This is assuming he wins the war. Pretty sure his aim is to be high king.

A Stormcloak victory is not something desired by the Thalmor, so I doubt they have the manpower to invade. You must remember that Skyrim is far away from the Dominion and the Dominion has to protects its borders with most o the Imperial legion stationed there. An invasion of Skyrim is not something realisticly achieved at this point.

If Skyrim becomes truly independent, I have no doubts that the Dominion will waste no time in sending everything they have at it. It's the idea foothold, and easily crushed.

I knew Ulfric... he was a [censored]! He was hitting on St. Alessia! He kept telling her "Who's your Thu'um daddy, who's your Thu'um daddy?"

I don't care what his aim is, he's not fit for it.

Yes.


That's the rresponsibility of the Empire's leaders. And they've been doing a bang-up job of it for the past couple hundred years, I must say. /sarcasm


Play the CW all the way through to the end on the Stormcloak side and you'll have your answer. (It will be "yes.")


Hey, at least it didn't start off with "OMG YOU GUYS I just went in the Thalmor Embassy and pwned a bunch of them LULZ but but BUT I FOUND THIS BOOK OMG YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT IT SAYS, Ulfric is really a spy for the Thalmor and is totally doing Elenwen on the side..."

It's not desired because it bleeds their enemies.

An independent Skyrim can't do anything against the Aldmeri Dominion beyond kicking the Thalmor agents out. So it's kind of moot even if he has thought ahead because the same thing keeping Skyrim safe from a Thalmor invasion can be applied in the reverse. Except the Dominion's navy is far superior.

Woo hoo! Empire v. Stormcloaks round 152!

*Rips open bag of popcorn.*

They don't want a Stormcloak victory in the short term because they want the civil war to continue. The longer it goes on, the more troops and resources the Stormcloaks and Imperials waste fighting each other. The Thalmor are essentially fattening them up for the kill. In the long term, they probably prefer a Stormcloak victory. It would isolate Skyrim, the most outspoken Talos worshipers, and literally cut the Empire in half, with High Rock and Cyrodiil being cut off from one another geographically. The Empire could easily crush the Stormcloak rebellion, but doing so would require pulling too many troops from its borders with the Dominion, possibly inviting an invasion. If the Empire can crush the Stormcloaks in those circumstances, the Dominion could as well. All they need to do is land their massive navy at the port cities in Skyrim and start slaughtering the civilians while the Stormcloaks are steel reeling from their extended campaign with the Empire.

This is what the Thalmor want. Whoever wins the civil war, it needs to be quick and decisive, wasting as few lives and resources as possible.

Point Im making isnt really empire vs stormcloaks. Its can Ulfric unify the other provinces against the Thalmor, assuming he wins the civil war. Its more about his ability to lead and for others to follow him considering his reputation. My belief is that he will need the support of the other races in order to drive back the Thalmor. But will they rally behind the figurehead of Ulfric?

Yes, but how? Unless they also plan to invade Hammerfell, High Rock, or Cyrodiil in order to get there, their only other option is to attempt an amphibious invasion via the Sea of Ghosts.

Thats something id like to see.
Have a vision of a stuffy high elf weeping over his cold feet.

Which is extremely doable. The Dominion's home soil is an island nation, and they have a gigantic, amazing naval force. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure teleportation spells still exist in this universe, even if they require some kind of large focus or "pad" (such as in Oblivion) to function. Beachhead equipment, you could say. Even without such things, their Navy is amazing, and with the Stormcloaks reeling from the war, they'd have the entire nation off balance.

Again, though, this is in the hypothetical situation wherein the player does not intervene, and the war rages on for years, ending in a pyrrhic victory for the Stormcloaks when the Empire decides it's no longer worth the bloodshed.

I'm using this situation specifically because we were talking about what the Thalmor really wanted in the long term, and I think this is exactly it: A broken, independent Skyrim that isolates the two remaining provinces of a dying empire.

I couldn't provide my opinion about him without divulgating a major spoiler around the main quest.

Ulfric achieves nothing without the Dovakiin.

Look at the events

1. Leads massacre against people of the reach.
He is obviously battle hardy and maybe a good warrior but doesn't show himself as a wise king but rather a bully.

2. Walks into Solitude unannounced and challenges the king. There is no mention of the High King accepting the challenge or putting up a good fight back.
Ulfric is sent running.

3. At the beginning of the game Ulfric gets caught. Hardly an act of a great warrior.

4. Imperials look strong as they hold up safely in the grounds of Solitude fort and they have Helgen in the south. Stormcloaks show little signs of being able to take either. In the end it is the dragon who destroys the Imperial stronghold at Helgen.

It is only through the Dovakiin siding with the Stormcloaks that he is able to achieve any success

But do the elves ultimately want to wipe out mankind post war? Or perhaps return to the slavery of the past...

Ulfric is a coward, yes, but Torygg did accept the challenge. Torygg knew he would lose the fight, but bravely accepted the challenge because despite what Ulfric would say, he was no milk-drinker. We know this because when you meet Torygg in Sovngarde, he flat out says it. Side note, if you meet Ulfric in Sovngarde, he lets bygones be bygones, and even admits that his war was a huge mistake.

Ulfric likes to boast about how he killed Torygg "because he could" and "because he wanted to show people how weak one is when they drink the empire's milk", but in reality, he's full of crap. We know nothing about Torygg's martial skills, we only know Ulfric won because he used the Thu'um. If you challenge someone to a duel, you are in general, agreeing to play by a certain set of fair standards. When one party has an insurmountable advantage like the Voice at their disposal, and the use it? It stops being a duel, it turns into murder.

So the claims from each side that it was a duel, and also that it was murder? Both are true. Torygg accepted the challenge, Ulfric used a ridiculously overpowered unfair advantage, and then had the nuts to boast about it like he was something special. It was dishonorable.