True, but he would find it out eventually. He didn't manage to execute Ulfric, and as the war is ragging, he is spending time in Skyrim. He isn't in isolation or so, so he surely was informed it was a duel. I mean it would just be silly if he wasn't. So I think he realized it sooner or later, but he doesn't seem to care about it too much anyway, now he wants to take Skyrim by any means.

Considering the fact I've yet to see any empty houses in Skyrim (not occupied by corpses, at least), and only one instance of one member of a very large family being abducted, I'm willing to bet everyone's doing a much better job at not getting hauled off in the middle of the night than sensationalist Stormcloak supporters would like people to believe. It's almost like they're being intelligent and cautious about it, rather than stomping their feet and drawing attention to themselves.

In fact, no one I've spoken to in the entire game (admittedly there are still a few people out there that I haven't run across yet) other than Avulstein has reported missing family or friends. In fact, the only ones who seem to be in a state of grievance are related to victims of circumstantial murder, or to people who actually decided to swear an oath and put on a uniform.

But you're right, I have seen prisoners being escorted away - oh wait, they're flagged as members of the Stormcloaks faction? And are considered enemy combatants at this time? Purely coincidental, I'm sure.

On the topic of executions : While Rogvir is unfortunate, I'd say the fact no one seems overly concerned other than his sister speaks volumes of the kind of person he was before this whole fiasco unfolded. Other than that, executing known criminals and enemy combatants? Someone call up the United Nations, we've got unprecedented levels of barbaric cruelty here!

He did? Why didn't he tell me? It is probably because I pickpocketed his armor..

You say that when nearly every European culture has "turned their back" on many traditions. That's nothing new and doesn't make you less of anything in my eyes and especially doesn't mean a land that you've lived in is any less yours.Of course not every Nord is going to support a group of rebels. The Empire is as much of a tradition to them as a silly duel. That's the whole point of this argument.

So because no one stood up for Rogvir, you assume he was a dike despite having no evidence to support it?

Heh.

It also doesn't help that "For the sake of tradition" only seems to come into play when it's beneficial to the cause, as opposed to being upheld every step of the way.

The thing is that there is really only two people who mention the duel at all in Solitude; Roggvir and Sybile. And from what I gather from Elisif he is almost entirely focused on the war itself.
I don't know why, but to me it seems that Tullius' disposition against Ulfric makes a lot more sense if he doesn't know about the finer details around Toryggs death.

Paraphrasing :

"Why not tell her the truth, that he's a traitor."

"Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!"

"He doesn't deserve to speak!"

"Being 'honorable' doesn't make you right."

"Boooo."

"Boooo."

Skyrim isn't exactly a land where people keep their opinions to themselves, especially when it's extremely unlikely that anything bad would have happened if they decided to say "Nooo, Rogvir! Waaah!" You have people trash-talking the dead King within the same walls, supporters of either side openly discuss their dislike of how their commanding force is doing things, yeah I'd say that since nobody spoke up for him or seemed to care, it meant he probably wasn't the most well liked guy in town. If not disliked, at least so meaningless in the grand scheme of things that half the city doesn't even register it past the droplet of blood they might have gotten on their outfit from the severed lump of his neck.

'Heh.'

I agree with that, but I am just saying they're being two-faced. All the Nords, even those who support the Imperials now, they all clam to be proud on their traditions. So all I am saying it's either two-faced or really unrealistic. When Battle-Born comes to me and speaks as proud Nord, I just want to cut off his lying head.
For one, I do only support Baalthur, he is doing what is best for his people, but he doesn't claim to be true Nord who will do anything for traditions, because he knows he ain't.




That is a fair point, yet I am sure that not only two people in Skyrim know of their traditions and rules in duel, that would be kinda silly. :/
As for Tullius's will to chase Ulfric down, I think it's more personal then going after a murderer. He knows he/his superiors can use the new High King as their puppet if he kills Ulfric, and that would benefit the Empire a lot, so I think even if he knew it was a duel, he would still be able to turn blind eye on it, just to complete his goal.

But ofcourse, that all is just my opinion, I don't say I am correct about it.

I got the impression that the scene was to show there were lots of brainwashed Imperial supporters who'd forgotten their Nord roots in favor of Imperial gold and Imperial protection.

Could be. My personal interpretation is just that Tullius is a company man, the "problem solver" to end all problem solvers in the Legion who is only dispatched to get the "job" done, period, end of discussion. That sort of dogged, fixated determination to see the campaign done and done right can seem personal to a lot of people from an outside perspective, but if you've met a lot of people with that trait, you'll start to understand why they look at you funny when you say they're taking things too personally.

For someone who accused me of making assumptions about a character's past and disposition by saying he might be something of a dike or pointless background shape to most people, you just took out an entire crowd of people in one sweeping generalization.

I love these threads!

Anyway. Whether accused of treason or not, no one bothered to even vouch for him or offer a soothing, friendly statement to the man a few moments before he left Nirn. No one even offered a "We'll meet again in Sovngarde" or other token Nordic death-farewell. They all just cursed him, spit on him, and then immediately walked away without so much as a shrug towards the podium.

Plenty of people are willing to speak up for someone - even if it's futile, even if it's unpopular - in the name of friendship. All he got was his brother-in-law watching silently from the back and saying "You're all heart, Viv" to someone else. Hardly the hallmarks of a beloved, respectable paragon of the community. Especially since as we've established, with your pictures and everything, this is a town where people are willing to talk poorly about the dead KING less than a year after his demise to a complete stranger who - for all they know - could be on some sort of traitor inquisition to root out dissenters. They don't fear it because it doesn't happen.

ULFRIC gets a token farewell from an enemy combatant, one of the people who was directly responsible for orchestrating his downfall, at that.

Incidentally, this is why I love characters to not get too much backstory in RPGs. I'd rather sit here and debate, draw conclusions, make assumptions than be told "I'VE LIVED IN THIS TOWN FOR THIRTY SEVEN YEARS. THIS IS A LIST OF EVERY FAMILY MEMBER I HAVE. TEN YEARS AGO I WAS INJURED HERE. THESE ARE MY OPINIONS ON EVERYTHING. LET ME TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT I WAS DOING THURSDAY NIGHT."

This is supported by the fact that Tullius himself will tell you that he is often sent by the Emperor to places with problems that needs to be solved.

He sure as hell picked the perfect time for a rebellion,with the mortal enemy of the empire baring there fangs and he wanting to weaken the land further which it will let the thalmor have an easier time killing us and roasting our chicken?nice timing dude

I thu'umed Vilkas to the ground, hit him a few times, then he started speaking like normal. He said nothing about me using magic. Even if he did, the thu'um is a Nord tradition. They used to duel with it all the time, and if you couldn't use it or your voice was weaker, so were you.

Well, till that one Tongue threw a hissy fit when Skyrim lost the Battle of Red Mountain, and tried to force it so that all who use Thu'um cannot use it for violence and war.

The bit I read about the Thalmor invading Skyrim was flat out wrong. I talked about this with you, outlined why its not likely, and you didnt answer back.

1. The surrounding territories:
Leaves the Thalmor's troops extremely exposed from the rear by the Empire and Hammerfell.

2. The terrain.
Mountainous borders not only make it hard to cross, but hard to receive supply lines and reinforcements. Thalmor dont have a lot of soldiers anyway, so reinforcements are very vital.

3. Climate.
History will show when a people unused to the cold weather fight in cold weather, it is a big disadvantage. Combine that with the fact the Nords have an actual magical resistance to cold, and perform very well in it, well, the homefield advantage is theirs.

4. The Sea on the North is treacherous:
The Nords narrow boats are pretty much like the vikings, where they have the ability to better perform in shallow waters and rocky water areas. The thalmor dont have these kinds of ships. Even though they have a superior navy, that will have an effect when they come in to land on Skyrim. Even then, I really doubt they'll be able to set up shop so to speak while being attacked constantly by the nords, which is important when trying to recieve troops and supplies. They cant have ports in a hostile area. They need somewhere nearby, which is why I think they'd go for the Empire or Hammerfell again, first. Also,

5. Distance:

Skyrim is pretty far from Summerset Isle. Without somewhere nearby, not only will they not recieve troops and supplies fast enough, but again, they dont have any nearby safe zone place to stay while attacking Skyrim. They can stay on the boats, but then they risk losing the land they fought for on the beaches. That isn't really safe either since they'd be constantly hounded on water by the Nords. Them invading from the Northern seas just isn't a realistic option. Neither is it from the southern area while the Empire and Hammerfell are still in the way. Then there's the fact that Elves dont reproduce as fast as humans, and Thalmor are picky with their rugrats. In the long run, the soldiers they lose costs them a lot.

Thats only with grey beards. Grey beards dont have any authority over the thu'um. Their view on it is really stupid in my opinion.

This right here is just one of the many reasons why I detest the Stormcloak "movement."

"Oh, you just decided you don't want to be part of the Empire anymore? No problem, we'll still back you up when you need it."

Reminds me too much of those spoiled kids who know no matter how many times their parents threaten to take something away while they're in the middle of a catastrophic tantrum, they'll be out of their punishment within the hour.

Well, the Empire hates the Thalmor as much as Ulfric's lot. Its not their fault they're in a really good spot they can take advantage of. I hear what you're saying though. A lot of the strategic defenses Skyrim has is due to the Empire. Oh well. lol.

Difference being that I stated very blatantly that it was my impression.



Who would speak for him when allying with the Stormcloaks leads to

Beheading

or worse,

Being handed over to the Thalmor?

How is being sympathetic towards a man facing death, even if it's just to offer brotherly love, considered allying with the Stormcloaks? Any moreso than saying you don't really care that the High King was murdered? Or not taking a side in general?

I'm not saying they need to mount a daring rescue, or even jump up and down and scream he did nothing wrong. But in a crowd composed of almost every citizen of Solitude, not a single person had anything nice to say towards him before his execution, or wish him a good afterlife afterwards.

You'd make a good Thalmor agent, despite your protests, you seem to be capable of seeing guilt in everything.

And I'm not sure how you didn't take what I think of Rogvir as an impression either. That's... kind of the entire nature of filling in the blanks of characters we know nothing about.

It may not actually lead to that but you know how people are. If a man was arrested and killed for opening a gate, I'm sure many would be afraid to be seen as a traitor as well. Especially if rumors say you're a stormcloak sympathizer.

I don't know if you remember this, but you were nearly executed just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also, Thorolf Greymane or whatever his name is.

"What do we do, captain? His name isn't on the list?"
"WHO CARES? HE GOES TO THE BLOCK."

Sure does sound like the empire is full of right minded officers when you can say that infront of GENERAL TULIUS and he's fine with it.




There's a difference in speaking to a person in private compared to yelling out infront of Imperial officials.

General Tulius is facing the wrong way and possibly having a conversation with someone. But that's semantics.

And on the matter of Thorald. The missive says he was captured in battle, which is probably more true than "spoke in favor of the Stormcloaks" since there are DOZENS OF OTHER PEOPLE IN THE GAME WHO DO EXACTLY THAT AND NEVER HAVE ANYTHING BAD HAPPEN TO THEM.

In front of JARLS.

In front of SOLDIERS.

In front of OFFICIALS.

In earshot of THALMOR.

And confess EVERYTHING to someone they JUST MET because he has a protagonist camera floating behind his eye socket.

Maybe people don't fear speaking up about it because being immediately nicked by the Thalmor the second you so much as utter "Ulfric Stormcloak" in a dreamy tone isn't something that actually HAPPENS?

Maybe because they like the dissent it causes, as it benefits them more than a unified front in either direction?