I'd like to say hello again to everyone on this continuation of the previous thread. I hope we again get into some good discussion, general talk and what ever we want to say about anything we saw in Game jam. About Werewolves. Or Vampires.

To see what has been said in the past for everyone new please go here and follow link to further previous threads. Enjoy

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1359096-werewolves-game-jam-general-discussion/

I would like a nice civil talk with no flaming, no trolls or else fire spells shall be used...

Great I look forward to hearing from everyone. Old friends and New friends.

Yeah let's hope it will not be like the end of the last forum >.<

It did get a little flamie. but I'm sure we can do our best to avoid that this time around

What are Volkihar? The vampire clan of Skyrim. Paranoid and cruel, they reach out of the ice to grab people...without breaking the ice. And they never venture in the world of men except to feed.

What is the Order? Vampire clan of Cyrodiil. Mostly nobleman and politicians, they masquerade around palaces and fancy places while deceiving and convincing everyone that they are human. They like to feed on sleeping people, and are responsible for destroying the vampire clan(s) in Cyrodiil, establishing themselves as the only vampire bloodline.

We think the vampires in Skyrim are the Order, because they can blend in. But their named Volkihar, so it's contraversial to established lore. And there are too many loopholes to write down. So since this is a werewolf thread, let's get to the subject.

Werewolves are cool. I want the damn Hunting Grounds. Good day.

What if these Vampires are different? like break aways or of the sorts? Sadly Vampires are explored LESS in this game than Werewolves. So as far as I can tell we really don't know much about the Vampires of Skyrim, unless there's something I haven't seen.

I wouldn't go as far to say that vampires got explored less than werewolves because werewolves next to nothing besides the Companions. I doubt that these vampires in Skyrim are "break aways", I think Bethesda ran out of time to make the Volkihar true to lore so they gave us ones similar to the Order, plus it is a win for them because players don't have to complain about not being able to go out in sunlight. But since there is no lore as to why the vampires in Skyrim are the way they are, we have to assume that the Volkihar somehow obtained the ability to blend in. This is why I would like them to add the Vampire lord, only make those types of vampires the Volkihar.

The current Vampires in Skyrim (in-game) are the way they are because there wasn't enough time to flesh them out or pure negligence. The same can be said of Werewolves and the lack of Werebears. Neither Vamps or Weres are as they should be, there is no loophole in lore to provide an excuse, They Are Defective. Years of lore and actual gameplay from previous iterations of the Elder Scrolls supports this. The Volkihar didn't just find a way to blend it, all Vamp abilities were just copied and pasted from Oblivion.

And I have to advocate against Vampire Lords. Vampires do not have wings.

Um, vampires in Skyrim are very different from vampires in Oblivion. In almost every way. The skill increases from Skyrim vampires are only really good if you're going for a stealth/magic-y stealthy character, whereas in Oblivion just about any character archetype could benefit from them. They also had a a resistance to normal weapon damage, and both that and the skill/attribute bonuses became stronger with each stage of vampirism. In Oblivion, sun damage would sear your flesh off if you went even a day wtihout feeding. You couldn't wait outside during the daytime, also there's no more Reign of Terror and Cyrdollic vampires didn't have Vampiric Drain. Also the Weakness to Fire was nowhere near as bad as it is in Skyrim, since it just would increase by 10% with each day without feeding as compared to 25%.

Basically the lore concerning vampires varies from region to region, as there are varying accounts of what effects vampirism has depending on which clan/type is being mentioned. The first mention of any vampires in Skyrim, correct me if I'm wrong please, but I'm fairly certain it was in the in-game book "Immortal Blood," which first appeared in Oblivion. It denoted the Volkihar and while the PC may not be a part of that clan specifically, that's surely where the strain of vampirism in Skyrim has its root.

People STILL forget that no other vampire can blend in society. It's a trait unique to the Cyrodiilic Clan of vampires. In Immortal Blood and Manifesto, it implies that they have that unique ability, the latter having more information.

Hell, even in Morrowind they talked about the differences of vampires: In Imperial tradition, where the Cyrodiilic vampires talk about influencing, are hinted. While everyone else sees that vampires cannot blend in. Ever played a vampire in Morrowind? All three clans were unable to blend in. At all. It talks about vampires within Imperial stations and then regular ones.

"Imperial culture regards blood vampires as destructive monsters to be hunted and destroyed. However, romantic notions of noble, virtuous vampires persist in Imperial traditions, and vampires are thought to pass unrecognized in the Mages Guild and the Imperial aristocracy."

"http://oi50.tinypic.com/29pc67d.jpg

Bethesda could of just made it so that characters wore a helmet or mask in Skyrim, concealing their vampirism from a person. Yet they break lore again to simplify gameplay.

I think it would be cool for you to be able to contract one of the various strands of vampirism in the game. They could justify this by saying the Cyrodiilic strand has begun to creep into other territories, since they can blend in.

They could even make it so that the abilities are very different. The Volkihar could be a lot more powerful, but unable to blend in without taking special measures (closed faced helms, such as Daedric, Ebony, and Steel Plate). Meanwhile, the Cyrodillic vampires would be able to travel anywhere and blend in as long as they fed and travel during the day, but at the cost of more power.

Everyone knows that they made the current werewolves and vampires they way they are because of either time constraint or pure laziness, but they could have at least put some lore behind it, like they did with the werewolves, so we can know why they screwed us by giving us these half-Order, half-Vokihar vampires.

It would be good if they implemented the Vampire Lord in without the wings because that is probably what the Volkihar look like, so they could make those the Volkihar and the vampires currently the Cyrodiilic vampires.

I agree Werewolf&Vampire and REL_Dovahkin, if they add the Volkihar make it so they can't blend in, but if they wear a helmet or mask they could conceal their identity. Or and this could be an interesting reward for a vampire questline, is make a questline where you join the Vollkihar after being infected, and at some point during the quest or at the end of the quest you could get a special enchanted helmet or mask that hides their true nature. If we could wear any helmet we wanted to hide our identity, then no one would become the current vampires since the Volkihar are stronger, so they should make a special helmet or mask that does hide our identity to balance it out, rather than be able to hide with any helmet.

It's more like 200 years is a long time and things are forgotten, especially shady things like Vampires.

So the Volkiar are gone the Order took over, now they are known as Volkiar amongst mortals.


Maybe we'll see the real ones in a DLC.


Also the vampire thing was hardly because of lack of time but more because of the blending in part. In Morrowind you were locked out from most of the game after you turned into a Vampire.

Seems likely. I wish this was a "Order are now Volkihar. Case closed." scenario.

I hope we see them in DLC, and you are right the reason they most likely gave us the "Volkihar" with the reversed feeding from Oblvion is because they did not want to make the game unbreakable, and they did not what people to complain about not being able to talk to NPCs.

I'm really liking these indepth Vampire discussions even though I haven't a clue o_o How do we know these are Skyrim's own breed, I mean we know there are this order and this Volkihar, have Bethesda said the Vampires are one or the other? Just asking really, I don't go too far into lore or sorts, and I have little interest in Vampires.

Indeed it's odd, and a more concrete statement of why it's so would be nice, but all we're left with are guesses and assumptions. My friend figured it's just because the Nords of Skyrim are generally simpletons that if you feed before becoming Blood-Starved, they just assume you're sick or something. And while that makes sense, it's also kind of a kick to the player's shins. Or they're just figuring that 200 years is a really long time so that some/most/all of the lore before that is null. Which is pretty "wait, what?".

If Bethesda said something, we really wouldn't have a discussion about it . But sadly, they didn't elaborate on vampirism and it's clan. They have little covens such as Alva's coven of vampires, but they are most likely based on a single bloodline. Movarth Piquine was bitten by a Cyrodiilic vampire, he's mentioned in the book "Immortal Blood" in Oblivion and in Skyrim, and he's featured in the game. So it made me raise an eyebrow. We have a mixture of vampires with powers that are different and the same. Bethesda just said "Screw lore, let's just copy and paste the vampirism and add new things, contrary to lore."

Know what I say? Just say the Order began comingling with other less barbaric vampires from Skyrim or something. Problem solved.

I agree entirely, it's annoying. In Oblivion it was more or less the same thing. The more you went without feeding, the more people said you were sick. The fourth stage, people realized you were a vampire and chose to shun you. The more people you talk to as a blood-starved vampire in Oblivion, the more chances you will get attacked by guards.

I broke into a house in Oblivion, and the guard went and attacked me, saying "Feeding time is over vampire. Go back to the grave that spawned you."

So not even a "go to jail" choice was given. In any case, it's the same thing. Feed on sleeping people, look more human, less problems in the sun.

I had always thought feeding on people would make a Vampire stronger. Not make it look more human or what ever the default form is.

What if bethesda said "it's a new breed?" I mean 200 years is a LONG time for things to change.

New breed would be lame. We had enough "new breeds" going around. Yes, I'm looking at you Companion werewolves. And the whole "backwards" feeding is due to a pact they made with Clavicus Vile.

That's another thing that's really kind of silly for Skyrim vampires -- if someone catches you feeding, it's a 40 gold bounty aka the same as assault. That's so many layers of nonsensical I can't even begin to count them.

Really, I remember in Oblivion the guards would yell, "By the Nine there's a psychopath on the loose!" which did make sense because that would be my first thought if someone started drinking someone's blood.

Yeah, I tend to feed on Sybille Stentor when I'm in Solitude since she sleeps during the daylight hours a lot of the time. A few times I would forget to crouch before feeding on her and she'd wake up, all "What do you think you're doing!" then run off, guards approach me with the usual "You've commuted crimes against Skyrim and her people" routine. No special dialogue that I heard.

I think that is dumb that you can feed on her since she is a vampire herself, in Oblivion you could not feed on other vampires.

I thought about that, and maybe that's why she didn't bother screaming over it, but that might be giving the developers too much credit. Then again, I've never been caught feeding anywhere else, so maybe doing that yields different results.

Maybe, but if you have fed on her before then the time you got caught was a fluke. I think Bethesda did not spend as much time on vampires as they did in Oblivion, they were too worried about the damn dragons.