Where is the Fantasy : V - Skyrim

» Thu May 03, 2012 6:49 pm

I think skyrim is supposed to be more ~~down-to-Earth~~ down-to-Mundus, which is why we don't get the more whimsical creatures . And I guess they replaced trolls with bandits.
I saw a bandit just the other day. Hideous things. I hope to never see another.

» Thu May 03, 2012 7:02 pm

I cannot agree more with this. While the linear progression from Imps to Minotaurs in Oblivion was tedious and predictable, I do find their overall selection of creatures to be far better than Wolves, Sabre Cats, and Bears.

Dragons are pretty much the most fantastic creature you come across.

Now I don't mind that fantastical creatures be rare, that's actually rather cool. I don't often see Spriggans or Hagravens wandering about. I like that. I just wish that there were more to choose from.

Totally agree.

» Thu May 03, 2012 10:32 pm

Yup. I certainly can see how a game that features DRAGONS, draugr, Wispmothers, magic, giants, bi-pedal cat and lizard people, spriggans, werewolves, vampires, etc. can be seen as lacking fantasy.

» Thu May 03, 2012 8:03 am

Balanced Fantasy elements are always great in TES series of games!

» Thu May 03, 2012 4:09 pm

I think the OP makes a great point. One that has struck me.

While there are some fantasy type creatures in Skyrim, it is all strikingly earth like. So much so that things like Khajiits seem way out of place. There seems to be a progression

Morrowind - pretty much everything creatures was not just a fantasy creature, but a fantasy creature unique to Elder Scrolls (eg nix hounds, cliffracers, dreughs, scribs, netches, Ogrims etc. Not standard fantasy creatures but unique fantasy creatures

Oblivion - had real world animals (bears, boars, deer, etc), and a lot of standard fantasy creatures from earth mythology (minotaurs, ogres, imps, trolls, etc) though sometimes with a Elder Scrolls spin. Apparently a lot of Morrowind fans dislike the intro of real world animals and "real world fantasy" creatures, and felt that diluted the Elder Scrolls franchise. Some (not all of course) seemed to then develop a "hatred" for Oblivion that resulted in a complete dismissal of the game. For me I started with oblivion so the real world aspect never bothered me much.

Skyrim - largely real world with just a few fantasy creatures.

I'm wondering if Bethesda will or even should just give up the Elder Scrolls motif and lore entirely in TES VI or VII, and just go with a real world Medieval world with some fantasy thrown in.

The truth in this statement scares me a little.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:47 pm

I don't want fairies and boggarts in what is supposed to be a cold, war torn province with the threat of dragons looming over the land -.-

They could've used a few more creatures that would fit in with the environment though, I'll list some that could fit in well:

Rock golems
Sea serpents
White walkers, because they're so badass. (white walkers are from the popular TV show and book A Game of Thrones)
More daedra, Winged Twilights could make a nice return from Morrowind.

» Thu May 03, 2012 3:02 pm

Giants, trolls, draugr, wisp mothers, werewolves, vampires and dragons...?

There were other possibilities for fantastical creatures- creatures from Scandinavian and Germanic mythology, like selkies/ nixes (water spirits), kraken, kelpies and nuckelavees, kobolds etc.- but I think the creatures are pretty varied and it would not have been realistic if there were no wildlife in a remote, harsh province.

Also I think the Falmer lore is fantastic and it connects to Skyrim's history.

» Thu May 03, 2012 2:58 pm

My mistake. But I am a low level. Sooo I haven't come across super fantastical creatures just yet like the ice wraith and the whisp mother

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 am

Lore wise, I believe Minotaurs were suppose to be in Skryim so...

» Thu May 03, 2012 6:21 pm

Yeah there was just a greater variety of monsters right across the board in Oblivion.

» Thu May 03, 2012 11:17 pm

Did you miss the dragons? They're pretty fantastical. Not having a lot of generic fantasy creatures was a good move for me. It wouldn't suit the setting.

I actually really enjoy the lack of fantasy. This is a world I can get into, learn about, feel immersed in, without having to step back and think, "Wow this is a bit derp," and have to read or listen to a bunch of crap about fairies and such so it makes at least a little sense, and I don't feel I just dropped into a musical.

Spriggans, Ice Wraiths, Atronachs, Wisps/mothers, Falmer, Orcsimer, Bosmer, Dunmer, Altmer, Daedric gods, Daedra, Skeletons, Trolls, Magic, Enchantments, Potions, Dragons ect. all seems pretty fantasy to me. I dunno, but I'm glad they don't pile it on.

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:21 pm

Yeah there was just a greater variety of monsters right across the board in Oblivion.

Not that many more. I think people are perceiving variety because of the level scaling. Low level creatures would be replaced by different ones as you leveled up. And we all remember how people moaned about that.

» Thu May 03, 2012 8:50 pm

We need Lamias again.

» Thu May 03, 2012 10:59 pm

Not that many more. I think people are perceiving variety because of the level scaling. Low level creatures would be replaced by different ones as you leveled up. And we all remember how people moaned about that.

I don't really see "Bandit" and Bandit Thug" as two different types of enemies. One's just stronger than the other.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:03 am

I don't really see "Bandit" and Bandit Thug" as two different types of enemies. One's just stronger than the other.

Some creatures would be replaced by entirely different beings, though. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Creatures... You didn't see a mountain lion until level 12, or a dreugh til level 17.

» Thu May 03, 2012 4:00 pm

Some creatures would be replaced by entirely different beings, though. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Creatures... You didn't see a mountain lion until level 12, or a dreugh til level 17.

See, this is where my experience with Final Fantasy messes with my perception of how enemies in the open world should be. I don't mind a game that has it where you can go anywhere you want, but you'll have to be wary of high powered monsters in certain areas. Certain areas have more dangerous wildlife than others, and I don't mind that being reflected in this game.

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:38 pm

Taken from: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Creatures

Low-Fantasy creatures (they exist or have existed in our world, even as variants):
1) Bear
2) Chicken
3) Cow
4) Deer
5) Dog
6) Fox
7) Goat
8) Horker
9) Horse
10) Mammoth
11) Mudcrab
12) Rabbit
13) Sabre Cat
14) Skeever
15) Slaughterfish
16) Wolf

High-Fantasy creatures (they do not exist, or have not existed, in our world):
1) Flame Atronach
2) Frost Atronach
3) Storm Atronach
4) Dwarven Centurion
5) Dwarven Sphere
6) Dwarven Spider
7) Chaurus
8) Dragon
9) Falmer
10) Frostbite Spider
11) Giant
12) Hagraven
13) Ice Wraith
14) Magic Anomaly
15) Spriggan
16) Troll
17) Werewolf
18) Wisp
19) Dragon Priest
20) Draugr
21) Ghost
22) Skeleton
23) Zombie

You do the math.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:59 am

You do the math.

41% of creature types are more or less realistic animals.

(Though i would count Dragon Priests as Draugr, there are no zombies, and ghosts are just people, so make that 44% :hehe:

).

» Thu May 03, 2012 8:47 am

I agree. The selection is too boring.

There should be fairies, unicorns, ogres, goblins, mermaids, and all kinds of creatures.

Those creatures would feel shockingly out of place in Skyrim, for many of the reasons already listed in this thread. I'd say Beth hit the balance just about right for what they were trying to deliver in Skyrim.

» Thu May 03, 2012 11:19 am

I like the way Bethesda has pruned back some of the more discordant fantasy creatures from 'Oblivion'. Tossing in greek minotaurs, scandinavian goblins, medieval unicorns and etc. to compete with all the original TES-specific creatures just resulted in an undoubtedly fantastic but somewhat salad-of-the-day type fictional world. Great fictional worlds benefit from being consistent within themselves... for example, it probably wouldn't have improved 'Blade Runner' if Ridley Scott had added the odd Klingon fo colour.
I hope TES continues down this path, it would only strengthen the immersivity, consistency and lore of the series.

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:41 am

41% of creature types are more or less realistic animals.

(Though i would count Dragon Priests as Draugr, there are no zombies, and ghosts are just people, so make that 44% :hehe:

).

Zombies are in the game: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Zombie
Ghost are/were people (undead people to be exact), fine, but do they actually exist in our world? I personally don't think so, but I'm sure other people believe it so. Thus they are "fantastical" creatures.
Dragon Priests are not considered draugr, even if they are similar: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ghost#Dragon_Priests

And if you want to consider Dragon Priests and draugr the same, then I would consider the wolf, fox and dog the same.

Still, even with your logic of 44% it means that less than half of all creature types in Skyrim are "Low-Fantasy". I mean, look at the evidence and see it if answers the original post.
"There are not enough fantasy creatures in the game"... ANSWER: "Over 50% of creature types in Skyrim are fantastical, mythical, magical"

» Thu May 03, 2012 5:52 pm

I'd rather have a credible sets of monsters like in Skyrim.

In Oblivion Minotaurs and Goblins were found along the roads as if they were some kind of freak bandits; so much for their 'mythical' creature status.

What I wanted was a fantastical creature which would easily fit the setting... a kraken/Colossal squid. I was really excited to find out whether they had put in any deep sea creatures that were scary.

» Thu May 03, 2012 11:48 am

Zombies are in the game: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Zombie

Those are Oblivion's zombies, only "zombies" in Skyrim are the people necromancers raise.

Ghost are/were people (undead people to be exact), fine, but do they actually exist in our world? I personally don't think so, but I'm sure other people believe it so. Thus they are "fantastical" creatures.

I'm talking game-mechanics wise here, they are normal people with (most of the time) different voice set and a special effect to make them appear transparent. Like the holograms in New Vegas' DLCs.

Dragon Priests are not considered draugr, even if they are similar: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ghost#Dragon_Priests

True, they are different enough from Draugr both in apperance and in abilities that they can't really be classified together. I was thinking more lore-wise there, they are similar type of undead.

And if it's supposed to be a "fantasy" game, i'd expect the percentage be closer to 80% than around 40%. In Kingdoms of Amalur for example the only real animals i rember seeing are deer, wolves and bears, and even their apperance was different from the real things. But Skyrim does seem to be going for "realistic" approach, though "realistic fantasy" sounds a lot like an oxymoron to me :hehe:

» Thu May 03, 2012 11:14 am

I was surprised to see no frost giants. We have regular giants, but no frost giants?

» Thu May 03, 2012 9:46 am

They did. They're called slaughterfish. But every fantasy game in existence has real life creatures in it as well, so why not fish?

Those are old creatures. Which furthers my point they have no creativity