I'll give you that we have not seen Slaves make weapons but we have seen them make pretty much everything else.

Legion can't get the Howitzer to work because the Firing mechanism is missing yes but do you know how NCR would fix it? They would make a NEW firing mechanism or better yet make a whole new Howitzer. Would take time to move it all the way from the West to the Dam but they could do it.


History lets us know that Slave Labour is not the best labour you can get. They always rebel and if they are making your food and medicine that just leavse you that much more vulnerable. The death of Caesar could give the slaves the chance they need to rebel.

NCR would'nt know how to make a new Howitzer, But they would try, I'll give you that.

The reason the Legion needs you is because they don't want to get blown to bits by another Howitzer.

But, They would be lacking Howitzer Shells, And what else do the Slaves make?

Last I checked the Legionaries made their own clothes, Own weapons, Repair their own guns, Make their own tents.
And the slaves only transported things, And made food.

I am sure by 2280 NCR knows how to make Howitzers. I base that on NCR taking control of many military bases that had Howitzers seen In FO2. Given they have industries they can just reverse engineer them. Still we agree they would at least try.

Slaves make medicine, healing powder. Having them make that and food is a weakness. Its not hard to imagine that the legion would have slave making clothing/cloth. Warriors can't spend all day sewing. I have not seen CL make weapons, I see them sharpening and fixing but not making. Having your men standing there making mechetes is also time wasted. Slaves are also the backbone of their transportation system, they rebel you will have to have your men carry everything.

I doubt they have companies yet, Or reverse-engineering Cannons, But they most likely have tried (And failed judging that they have almost no Howitzers at Hoover Dam, Except one.)

Medicine is not Healing Powder, And Medicine (Stims, Med-X, Rad-X, etc.) are banned from the legion, How is having them make food a weakness? When training they won't have all the time to make food, While not ALL of them will be making clothes, But at least some would have hobbies such as that, You can see a Legionarie hammering a machete in the Fort, Over a fire (Campfire anyways.), And If slaves stop working, Or anything, My guess is that they are killed/beaten, And shown as an example to other slaves. Again, Reinforcing their loyalty/fear of the Legion.

They only have the plane if the Courier helps them. This thread is about if the Courier does not exist and therefore the boomers have no plane. And would therefore be overrun eventually by whichever side wins the battle of Hoover Dam.

The NCR would win in my opinion. Ranger Vets would be called in no doubt. Caesar would die of a brain tumor. The Legion would fall apart whether it advanced or not. And the Mojave would have a problem as some of teh Ex-Legionaries entered the Mojave. The NCR might not be able to hold all of the Mojave against the tribals but ultimately they would be victorious. The Khans would eventually be finished. The Boomers would likely be able hold out for a while but what says the NCR goes after them.

As for Mister House, he never planned to take over the Mojave just keep the Strip form being annexed. Seeing as how easy it was for me to kill him, Benny would be able to pull it off. Whether he pulls it off or not would not matter. Without upgraded bots either one of them would not be able to hold onto the Strip for very long. The reason I say the bots would not be upgraded is because he could not enter the Fort and get past the Praetorians guarding the weather station so he could nto upgrade it before the Battle of Hoover Dam

The NCR might have a struggle defeating Lanius but still they would win.

EDIT: Also about the slaves if the NCR was attackiing or at battle with the Legion I would expect slaves to revolt knowing they could disrupt Legion Supply line and become free when the NCR wins. That hope would be all they need to rebel. Especially with Lanius and most of the Legionaries off at war.

The Slaves would'nt be able to revolt, Exploding collars also help with that cause.

Remember that if Courier doesn't exist then Legion might get another person with medical expertise to do the surgery or might go looking for the auto-doc part themselves.

No Courier = No conversation.

NCR comes up with a propaganda campaign to get the slaves to side with NCR. Slaves learn of an NCR attack through agents. Slaves give the man with the collar controls poison healing powder or water or mark him out so sniper can get him. Battle over and NCR bomb controllers remove collars. Or simply the slaves jump the guy or kill him in his sleep.

True but the logic remains. Legion invades NCR and in the end defeat themselves because every last man Caesar has will be needed to control NCR which leaves his lands east of the colorado without protecting. Others invade, slaves and towns rebel. With his power base gone NCR also rebels and the Legion falls. Caeser dies of brain cancer before that and someone else runs the show when Invation of NCR happens and the Legions moral would be low to being with.

Brotherhood of steel easy ... a heavily fortified base with deadly laser turrets
Im imaghing an army of ceaser legion charging some BOS people with knives and spears and the BOS are stood with power armour and guass rifles and flamers :flamethrower:

yep and they are hidding in their heavily fortified bunker because they lost to those people with knives and spears and they are afraid to come out :whistling:

Do we know that Legion treats their slaves badly?
I know we see a few slaves in The Fort but does that mean that every single slave is treated like complete and utter [censored] like if they were an inferior race?
And the answer is, we don't know. (actually, I might need to re-read the Legion entry in the Wikia)
We didn't get enough info about the Legion cause the game is so biased to the west side of the river.

I killed the Brotherhood of Steel single handedly. If i can do it, so can 500 NCR soldiers or 50 Vets or less.

Also we do know they treat slaves like utter pieces of ______, because in order for you to own someone you would have to see them as lesser or not as worthy of a life as you. Also the Legion is incredibly racist and sixist. They call me a profligate adn dissolute obviosly there slaves are one step higher but they are still slaves.

We know they treat women like crap and make them carry heavy things. A slave is a slave and I sure would not want to be one if someone was offereing me freedom. If they treated their slaves nice why would they need exploding collars?

They would'nt be able to get agents into the Legion.

All legionaries are captured/born into the Legion as a child, And begin training when they are old enough.
They can't get poison because as I remember it, All the stuff they use to make things is from Traders which give them exactly what they need for healing powder.

EDIT: Exploding collars to make sure they don't run off, A Slave is not always a Slave, I can remember that alot of slaves during the Civil War were'nt treated like an inferior being.
People have been treating women like crap in America for a while, Until the 1940/50's I believe, They were unable to vote or enlist in the military. (I'm not saying its right mind you.)

Well maybe if the slave worked harder it might be cut some slack once in a while even if he/she has a slave collar on their neck.
I wouldn't mind it so much to be a slave if I was captured by Legion.
I know they respect strong men so if I were captured and enslaved I would work my best and follow their orders to the letter in order to maybe be released from the collar and be accepted into the ranks of The Legion.
And the collar is only there to ensure that they don't try anything foolish, as long as you behave they have no reason to push the detonator.

In a world like Fallout I think that if you are a slave and behave like an obedient dog then you will be rewarded for your efforts, unless you belong to a twisted sadistic [censored]. (But not all legionnaires are like that.)
So actually, I think that it's a slaves on fault if all they do is whine and not work properly.
Why should sloppy work be rewarded?
They're digging their own graves. :shrug:
You do good work and you might be rewarded with a little extra food which will allow you to replenish your strength and do even better work the next day.
You do sloppy work and you might just get very little food or no food at all and won't be able to do much better work the next day either.

NCR has eyes everywhere. It's not fair to say NCR can get agents into the Legion. Legion uses outsided Merchants. NCR agents could leave behind notes along legion paths. They could use radios and loud speakers. Could put up billboards along the roads. Some might even get in as slaves. Capture some memeber of the legion that does not want to be a member of the legion and make him the agent.

Many slaves during the civil war sided with the Union to get their freedom. There were rebellions. Slaves that fought with the south did not try to hard (go figure). Women were treaded like crap back in the past but they fought back and got their rights. I am sure many women in the slave ranks of the legion would pick up weapons and rebel given the chance.

Legion paths are to the East, Not on the west side of the map.
(Last I checked.) And I know its fair to say they can't get agents into the legion. Because they can't.

I ruined mine with the spiked knuckles. Ripped his arm off somehow.

What if you did get a bad slave master like Silus that likes to put the collar on a little tighter so it digs into your flesh and you never get used to wearing it. Every time you swallow you would be reminded that you are property. Also many legion men around the camp talked about the New Slave girls. I am sure they have more in mind them making you cook and clean :deal:

Or many men that like the idea of their families being killed, enslaved I sure would not work loyally for anyone that did that to my family.

Heheh before it all gets a bit two real lets just say Being a slave svcks no matter how well or badly treated (Sparticus comes to mind hehe ahh or Maybe Conan would be better as that is more fantasy based heh).. And not having a slave revolt for fear of reprisals on your family?? uhh what family would that be as they two would be property sold at a whim...

I am going with the deathclaws as the winning side as I have never seen any Npc be able to stand up to one heheh

So all those Legion moving around in New Vegas are all on the East side of the Colorado? :rolleyes: Not being able to get an agent into the legion is your opinon. Upset slaves, low level legion would make good turncoats. Rangers could get themselves taken as a slave were they can start stuff. Merchants that get into the camps. People like the courier. I was able to find battle plans at Cottonwood cove. I am sure Rangers working with Merchants or as merchants can get in.

The NCR of course.

By Legion Paths, I assumed you meant "TRADE ROUTES".

Oi, Legion would'nt turncoat, If they did, They would'nt fight the legion head on.