i agree, but killing someone is just an escape, as they are dead they cant atone for their corruption and sins.

If you were given a choice today, be Killed, or be trapped in a tiny room in a cold dark basemant with just your underwear eating only cockroaches and your own urine for the rest of your life (no chance of ever being released), which would you choose?

Ok, can we just give it a rest. We get it that you do not like the idea of killing Maven's family or the Silver-Blood family but what if killing them was the only way to get rid of their corrupt influence was to kill them? I will let you think on that for a while.

Sometimes you don't get a choice. People like the silverbloods, you're not gonna make atone for squat. Sometimes death is the only option, and not everyone will be able to atone. If I had the choice, then yea I'd make 'em suffer. If I had the choice.

Torture is not justice, either.

just because a corrupt individual is running a particular city's "legal department" does not mean justice can not happen..

this is the joy (somewhat) of the medieval Hierarchy: just go to the person above them within your nations hierarchy. sorta like how certain class action law-suits go to a higher court for their appeals.

Killing them swiftly. No fewer innocents are protected either way (Possibly more if you do kill them - there's no chance they can escape and continue their reigns).

"If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you're going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat. They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the moment of murder like another man will put off a good cigar. So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word."

The higher-ups don't care. And the Black-Briars and Silverbloods have connections even higher than that. Trying to get through the bureacracy just wastes time allowing their reigns of terror to go unchecked, and doesn't guarentee results.

Basically what I am trying to get across here. and I did not mean to start a debate with him when I said that comment about doing Skyrim an injustice, also funnybunny, you do realize you get to either join the Dark Brotherhood or

I will let you think on that a bit more.

what torture? I was describing the prisons we have seen throughout the franchise

no, because by killing an individual respected Citizen, regardless of their past, makes you just as evil as they are.

two wrongs, do not make a right

*facepalms*

The Silver-Bloods and Blackbriars are hardly even respected.

"Justice can be preformed for anyone, as long as you seek the Knowledge and Power to do so. You excuse death as righteous when you're too weak to seek either of those."

Ah yes chaurus food.

Imprisoning a person with no food/water is torture.

Black-briars were respected enough to become Jarl.

they may not be respected by the forums, but by Ingame standards they are. all the province talks about how great the Black-briar Mead is. Silver-bloods run quite a successful business themselves

Respect had nothing to do with it. Influence and power had everything to do with it.

It may still be morally wrong, even if it's the best of the available options.

of course respect had something to do with it.

when you sack a city and claim it as part of your kingdom, you would not assign a Governor (or in this case, Jarl) who will not be respected to some extent by that community.
the time during Political change within a City/County/etc can be extremely difficult for the average Citizen, so they usually apoint Citizens who are liked or respected by the majority of that community to make the transition of power easier for Citizens to deal with.

If you don't believe me, you can always read textbooks on medieval politics, I know a few you may enjoy

Legally wrong. Not morally wrong. It's important not to get those terms confused, especially when discussing RPGs.

I'm not confusing them. The claim is that killing them may be morally wrong, even if it's the best of the available options. In general, it is not obviously true that in all cases taking the best of the available options is to do something that's not morally blameworthy.

This may be the case sometimes, but not always. A lot of the times they assign people that strictly are advantageous to you. I could use modern examples but that woul strike up a whole new level of derailment. But what you say is not always the case even in medieval times. People don't respect maven, they fear her. You wont find a single person saying they respect her in the way you're thinking. Not unless they work for her and say they do because they know better not to. Case in point, the dark elf bartender in the Black Briar meadery. Unless "respect" from fear is what you were going for, which isn't the same thing.

He's a Wood Elf. She's had so many bartenders no one knows who's who.

Nazeem

Battleaxe to the face

I don't dislike anyone enough to warrant their death.

Oh whoops. Been a while.