Justice is also giving people what they deserve. With this definition Maven Blackbriar deserves death and so do the Silver-Bloods. Therefore I refute your claim, and this is also Skyrim, go kill a Thalmor patrol after goading them into attacking you. You will be pleased when you do, you might see it as harassment but you are essentially giving them the middle finger when it comes to their Talos worship persecution.

Come on guys, this is fantasy. I myself wouldn't murder anyone or invade bandit or giant camps for that matter.

This is Skyrim. Where I can tell someone that I wanna send their soul to Sithis, then legally kill him after he attacks me when I clearly threatened him in the middle of an inn. Their version of murder isn't quite the same as ours. Hell, they called a duel murder. Different cultures.

editz: Actually that bits not too different from our law. Given recent events that I won't specifically mention.

When someone is trying to debate with you on the morality of killing any of the Blackbriars or Silver-Bloods and whether or not it counts as murder then one tends to take it a bit seriously . . . especially when the two aforementioned families would kill you if given the chance anyway.

they deserve to have justice forced upon them, not death...

Death and/or murder are not justice, they are escapes..




it prevents you from having to face actual justice. why do you think everytime you hear about a major shooting at a school or Cinema on the news, it always says the shooter then turned the gun on himself? because by dying he cheated the system, and will now never have to pay for his crimes.

Death is not an escape, if you do it properly. *cough*Soul Cairn*cough*

I'm just gonna end this by saying many people have different interpretations of justice. And that neither yours or mine is definite or right, and you'll be arguing this all night.

You sir have no idea what Maven has done, she is the justice system of Riften just as much as the Silver-Bloods are the justice system of Markarth. There is only one way around that kind of corruption and that is to do away with those who are corrupt within the justice system. Like you said, Justice, sometimes the only way to enact justice is to kill the person in question which is why killing all those random Bandits in Skyrim does not count as murder and that is also why goading the Thalmor into attacking you and then killing them is not murder. How can there be justice if the justice system itself is corrupt?

That's exactly what I meant. There's no reason to get anyone's knickers in a twist because there is a faction someone would like to get rid of. Heck, I'd like to see any number of factions go away like the Blackbriars and Silverbloods along with the Thalmor, Delphine ad infinitum. We're not talking about killing actual people here, they're pixels for goodness sake. Discussion of politics like the death penalty etc, etc don't belong in the forums.

Edit: And this thread has been completely derailed by the debate. If someone doesn't like the idea of killing NPC's in Skyrim they are not being forced to post here.

Maybe the East Londoner gangster thing has become a cliche, but I don't think Skyrim overplayed it. It was really only Delvin; Karliah's VA was putting it on a bit, but it wasn't very pronounced.

Same here but for Barbas, Serana, Farengar, Ulfric, Tullius, every thalmor, Krosis, Alduin, Maven frigging snob arsebriar, an generally every kid you cant adopt an the list goes on an on an on an on except Karliah she id resurrect just so i could screw her to death over an over gotta love me some sixy dunmer.

An more then anything he who shall not be named to infinty an beyond id kill him forever an never get bored in fact i may console command 50 off him in an kill every one of them an then rinse an repeat until my pc crashes.

As you can tell way to many people get on the wrong side off me, Those poor poor fools.

Delvin's voice is awesome. I don't like Karliah's more because its so devoid of emotion.

True, but it is a debate on why I want to see Maven and the Silver-Bloods dead and he is arguing about justice.

Yeah . . . how can there be justice if the justice system itself is corrupt?

Well this thread escalated quickly

Indeed, I want to see him answer my question about how there can be justice if the justice systems of Riften and Markarth are themselves corrupt due to the Blackbriars and the Silver-Bloods. In order for there to be justice in his view then one would need to do away with the ones who are causing the corruption I.E the Blackbriars and Silver-Bloods.

last I checked, you brought up the topic of "justice"

you sure you don't mean Karma? Karma is "bad things should happen to bad people".


and justice still exists, even if the ones controlling it are corrupt.

Personally id crucify his [censored] to the a fore mentioned statue he loves so much.

It might be that certain agents are inhibiting justice from being done. It doesn't follow that killing them is just.

I'd consider it a great injustice if everyone else but the corrupt individuals get punished.

So, anyone else want to tell us how you want to kill someone they hate?

Your first post and you still never answered my question of how you can have justice if the system itself is corrupt and would likely be the thing that puts you in prison just because you spoke out against the corruption.

As for me I would kill Maven by stabbing her in the heart and the Silver-Blood guy who becomes

by stabbing them in the heart and parading their bodies around Riften and Markarth. There would be much rejoicing from Riften and Markarth, well except for the Silver-Bloods and Thieves Guild but finally justice would have been dealt in the most efficient manner possible. If those in charge of the system are corrupt then there really can not be justice until those who corrupt the system are gone, getting rid of them may vary and sometimes in order to enact justice you must kill.

Oh, it's a huge list.

The Silverbloods.

The Blackbrairs.

Delphine.

Ulfric.

Siddgeir...

Dengeir too.

Burguk and Shel.

All of the brotherhood and the thieves guild!

How? So many different ways, Could always do a battle royal, drag them all into a arena and do a massive frenzy spell! Since I'm a bit tired to think of more fun ways.

Killing them is the closest thing you can get to justice. They are unrepentant murderers, bullies, and scumbags. Every day they live and remain in power is another day innocents die and suffer under their heels. They are worse than any bandit gang. They are also almost beyond redemption, and wouldn't care for it anyway.

Why is Maven's life worth more than the combined lives of Sabjorn, Mjoll the Lioness, Aerin, and countless other citizens of Riften and Skyrim?
Why are the Silver-Blood's lives worth more than the combined lives of every other person and family living within Markarth?!

All it takes for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing.

That reminds me of the guy in borderlands 2 who wants you to shoot him in his head hes one hyper bandit lol