I'd also keep in mind that the Dragonborn is precisely the sort of character that when all is said and done would been seen as a potential rival and threat to Ulfric once he's no longer useful. In fact, the best possible reason to side with the Stormcloaks is to ultimately supplant Ulfric and take his place as the ruler of Skyrim, but that's not an actual possibility.

noble cause (at least, being independent until a True Empire can be formed is), but VERY BAD leaders...i sincerely wish you could overthrow Ulfric...

Time they do not have. Time they will never have. They will fail, because the humans love each other too much.

I don't support the empire because they're "needed" to protect Tamriel - I fully believe that the Stormcloaks would paint Skyrim red if the Elves invade. I support them for "the little guy" - The standard of living in the Empire is higher than the standard of living for its less-wealthy members.

And if the genocidal extremists in the Thalmor can be taken out, then even the Dominion wouldn't be quite as nasty - I hear they've done wonders for Pelletine and Annequina.

I'd have to disagree with you, and an important part is that everyone is focused solely on Ulfric and his short fallings instead of his movement and the movememnts goals.

Ulfric is the movement. It's a cult of personality centered on him. Don't confuse his 'free Skyrim' propaganda with his actual goals. He's a dictator in the making. Dictators don't rally support by being honest about what they want to accomplish.

I just can't support the Current Empire because they are trying to use time they do not have, or Ulfric simply because of the kind of person he is. I have decided to support the Stormcloaks, but NOT Ulfric. He can kiss my Breton ass, and if he don't like it, my Thu'um is better than his.

My reason for siding with them is just the fact that when I went to Windhelm to join the Stormcloaks, I heard a lot about Elves being mistreated.

Seeing how my main character is an Elf I decided to simply turn right round and join the Empire.

actually i don't even think that ulfric even wants to bring talos worship back, what he wants instead is for the nords to worship him, i bet he wanted to be the next talos, except that i killed him.

I have heard his goals. he wants a free skyrim. a skyrim that belongs to the nords. his idea of what skyrim should be. The empire just wants to make sure skyrim is safe, and free as well.

Another one of these eh? I hope these threads dont turn into the "will there be a broken steel type dlc for fallout NV" threads, where a new one pops up every day.

Ive said it once, Ill say it again, Im going to support the empire. I feel for the rebellion's cause, but its not the best way.

J'derras went with Hadvar and the Empire for the following reasons:

1) Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are racist and when it comes to the land of Skyrim, selfish and racist.

2) The Empire didn't send J'derras to the block, that b**** of a captain did. Hadvar wanted to see me live because he knew I wasn't with the Stormcloaks, but he didn't have any say because he's only a lowly soldier from Riverwood. It also helps that the captain probably died in the attack on Helgen and Hadvar was sympathetic.

3) Ralof was obviously a nut to J'derras, because he was ready to give up his life just like that.

3) The Empire's main goal is to preserve the peace and the union of what provinces remain in the Empire.

4) The Empire hates the Thalmor as much as the Stormcloaks, so that's a wash, and odds are, when the Thalmor fall, Talos worship will return in the Empire.

5) Tamriel has a much better chance at defeating the Thalmor when united under a single banner as opposed to being seperated from one another.

6) J'derras has reason to believe that the Thalmor at Helgen paid off that Imperial Captain to execute him, because J'derras was fleeing from his hometown of Dragonstar, because the Thalmor wanted to kill him, because his family owed them a gambling debt that they could not pay, so the Thalmor are trying to take Dar-Jokrin blood instead.

because he assumes that nords wan't to fight for their homeland, and wonders why someone want's to fight for a land that is not their's.

he also states that he isn't saying no, he want's to know your intention's because they need people willing to die for the freedom of skyrim.

and to my fellow khajiit above me, Ralof would rather die as a man instead of begging for his life like a lowly milk drinker

... I'm starting to think Alduin has the right idea - The world is going down fast, let's re-boot it before the Elves erase everything.


Yet Lokir of Rorikstead proved himself to be the bigger man, by actually taking control of his life instead of bowing to the will of the Empire.

Yet would dictate one major deal breaker. Who they can worship, where they can worship, and with the Thalmor behind the strings no one is safe. Its very clear that the Empire's laws don't apply to the Thalmor, and the safty they bring is only a thin veil.



He will eventually, you can't stop destiny.

Well, the Empire wasn't too keen on religious freedom in Elsweyr - and at least Moon Sugar doesn't send those who consume it out to kill elves and crush kittens under the heels of Giant Stompy Robots.

Their a little finnicky even before the Thalmor with their laws. They ban slavery yet Tiber wasn't above selling slaves of his enemies in High Rock, and they do nothing to really stop Argonians and Khajiit being raided and sold as slaves in Morrowind. Not to mention all religious instituations of their proviencals just conveneantly all decide to take the Imperial varriants of their Gods..which all just foritifes me against their 'freedom and safty' shroud.

The stormcloaks also say that only the strongest should be able to rule skyrim as high king, that's why ulfric killed the king, but he won't even allow me to challenge him, and when i do try to kill him, they take is as an attack, what's wrong with them, they don't even follow their own rules, no rules, game is over, everybody dies.

Well said.

Just look at Toryyig. Ulfric won an honor duel fair and square, by all rights he should be High King without a rebellion. Its not Ulfric who started a war, its the honorless Imperials who supported a grief stricken widow.

Becouse USA is last Empire on earth!

Well, that was one person who was going to execute you on the block without your name being on the list. One imperial officer doesn't make the rest of them evil.

The Empire hates the Thalmor just as much the Stormcloaks do and many believe in Talos just as much. I'm not sure what you're getting at here, as soon as the war starts again Talos will be back in business openly throughout the Empire. It's not far off either, the Thalmor admit it's going to happen soon (Ondolemar says as much, they need to get their main goal done anyways and humans can't exist for that to be accomplished) and so do members of the Empire (Tullius, among others).

Yeah, I've seen their manifesto. That's why I don't think they stand a chance in the long run, humans are all over the place and are very numerous + quick as far as reproduction. They would need some sort of magic nuke to make it remotely possible, like Numidium or the Eye of Magnus.

I did the Stormcloaks questline once, I was all like, YEAH [censored] the empire, blah blah.

Then a couple of quests into it and hanging out with stormcloaks i regretted my decision. Most are xenophobic A**holes.
I agree skyrim should be able to govern itself and practice whatever religion it wants, but Ulfric is a selfish [censored], he doesn't give a crap about anyone but himself. I don't understand how some of you can admire Ulfric, Have you seen the way Dark elves and Argonians are treated in windhelm? What does the Jarl do? NOTHING. No guards are sent to solve disputes, in fact it's explained by a few npcs that if a nord village gets attacked by bandits Ulfric sends troops, but if a Kahjiit Caravan, any dark elf refugees or Argonian workers are killed by bandits, he doesn't do a damn thing. He doesn't deserve to be high king or even a Jarl. He lacks what it means to be a king and a leader, someone who works to protect all citizens and not exclude them based on race.

Now I'm not a super imperial really devoted fan either, I've always thought the empire where A**holes, coming into other provinces and demanding that the people of that province bow to their emperor. I think thats bull-crap, every province should have a right to govern themselves. And as Much as i despise the Thalmor, the legion was greatly outnumbered, is it better to send thousand of soldiers to their deaths with a high chance of losing the war anyway and coming under thalmor rule, or temporarily surrender to build up your forces? The Empire doesn't like the Thalmor either but i think it was the right decision to end the war by surrendering and not costing pointless deaths.

Really? because they are helping the Thalmor impose that law where The Empire banned Talos and allows the Thalmor free reign to persecute and oppress the people in an attempt to stomp it out. I thought it was clear my point. As long as the Empire remains weak, and don't fool yourself into thinking that the Thalmor arn't working to insure that they remain under heel, then the Thalmor are working to complete their goals. An independent Skyrim, free of Imperial laws and with an emboldened populace who will shout Talos' name from High Hrothgar and in the face of every Thalmor they meet does more to oppose them than silently leting them run rampat across the Empire.

The negatives against the Empire just aren't as many as against the Stormcloaks, in my view.

The negatives... Yes, it's true the game opens with Imperial forces poised to lop off your head. It's also true the Empire allows the Thalmor to crush Talos worship throughout its lands.

But here's why I joined the Empire.

For starters, I looked past the fact they were going to behead me, because it was wartime and I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I wandered around Skyrim for quite awhile before I took sides.

I realized the Thalmor were patrolling Imperial-controlled lands crushing Talos worship. That certainly wasn't good, but if the White-Gold Concordat prevented the Thalmor from outright conquering the world of men for the time being, it was a necessary price. Against the Thalmor, it buys the Empire time to consolidate and become stronger. The Empire would have fallen without support from the nords. The nords helped the imperials beat the high elves to a truce. Without them, they would not have stopped at the Skyrim border, either.

Then I found out (along the main quest) that the Thalmor have an interest in NEITHER side winning the civil war... just continued war in Skyrim. This confirms more what a threat the Thalmor continue to be. A civil war in the Empire's northern province takes manpower, materials and resources from two sides who should be unified against the Thalmor. It's only a quicker path toward Aldmeri armies marching through Skyrim.

A secondary reason is the xenophobic nature of many Ulfric supporters. The Dunmer are quartered off in a slum in Windhelm. Elven and beast-kind would likely be expelled if Ulfric wins the war. So I also joined the Empire to keep Skyrim home to both nords and non-nords alike.