This a million times.

I played daggerfal arena ect. I was fine with morrowind because it focused on more detail and story. The fact that they are making the game more user friendly than oblivion which was even more streamlined from morrowind....which was even easier than daggerfal just makes me WTF at everything.

And with morrowind they probably didn't know what was going to happen with the sales at the time they were a smaller company just making fun games now $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ blinds there vision like many other developers.


Modders got some work in front of them, for it is on their shoulders our salvation lies.

And don't misinterpret that as people wanting the game to NOT be accessible to others. It's just that there seems to be a precedence for what follows when developers start using that lingo.

Better to be skeptical and be pleasantly surprised than to be optimistic and be let down.

Oblivion was a good lesson with that. People expected huge leaps and bounds forth from Morrowind in Oblivion, but what we got was generic action-RPG gameplay that was too focused on its technical dreams than it was focused on being an entertaining product. Sure, it got good scores, but Oblivion ripped out so much of what made Morrowind unique and didn't do a very good job of replacing it.

As the old saying goes, for Skyrim, I expect the worst, but prepare for the best.

...

Hmm, that didn't sound quite right. :whistling:

Good job, you're a loser...

You say Skyrim is going to be a fine game, I say it's going to be totally amazing.

well im more of a il reserve my judgement until i see it in action kind of guy but my judgement didnt betray me when i believed that the animations will be far better and that those still screenshots dont do the game justice. i stand by my statement that this will be a damn fine game the interviews may make it sound oversimplified but all in all i think that was the fault of bad description.

Did I say automatically pessimistic? No, I didn't. When things are taken out of the game I'm not gonna act like one of the drones and be like "OMG, great decision, that svcked anyway." No, I'm gonna expect the game to be a little worse than I thought it would be. Much better than talking about how amazing everything is for 6 months and how much faith I have only turn into a bitter little whiner when the game comes out.

Imagine if CCP made EvE online super accessible; WoW esq even.

Depth comes hand in hand with complexity.

Look at really accessible games....like...idk....fable 3, and then compare that to idk....the Witcher 2.

It's like comparing Philip Glass to justin beeber. Yeah more people listen to justin beeber but 200 years from now he'll be forgotten and modern composers and more complex niche artists will be remembered.

Populism is an artistic medium versus complexity and depth in an artistic medium. The former is forgotten and the latter stays around, example 17th century folk music (music is forgotten while the music of the upper classes (at the time they were the majority of the intellectuals) is remembered.


I could of structered this better if i was not intoxicated.

Now you're thinking that you started playing TES with a game that had even more less content than is predecessors. Have fun with that.


Oh wait, you're not a fan of the series, you just looked at that game from the outside and said "DUUURRR LOOKS GOOD".

of course Skyrim is gonna be a great game!
The reason why people are so pessimistic in relation to the demo and pictures of what they have heard and seen is that bethesda will hopefully see that this is something the fans want them to improve before they give it out, and get a best possible product. And is not intended as and be rude to bethesda, it is supposed to help them with feedback. I wish and hope they fix some ragdoll animations, (like when the troll get dropped by the dragon), and the horses (they look a little wierd, way to big asses! and to short feets). possibly more things but those shown so far is the only thing I have something to give them criticism.

Honestly I'm very pleased with every single change they have made and since we know so little about the game and how it plays, I dont [censored].

I know what you mean. I use Mental Ray for Maya. It's pretty complex, but as a result it's also very powerful and flexible compared to other renderers I've looked at.

I guess I was just saying that complexity doesn't HAVE to be inaccessible. Sometimes it can be a matter of how you introduce someone to it. Do you ease them in or dump them in? Of course, people who know the complexity would probably get annoyed at being eased into it. I don't know. I don't know.

I also live by that so great minds think alike

Not just the armor, man. We want our rich, lore-filled world back, too. We want to feel like our actions mean something to the world. We want our semi-nonlinear questlines back that don't constantly pressure you to do them, and we DON'T want to be shoehorned into the Main Quest right from the get-go. Until you actually play Morrowind at least, I don't think you are really qualified to pass judgement on what we want.

But, to entertain you on the armor. There is a concept known as mix-and-match. The more armor pieces you have, the more flexibility you have with your character's appearance. Now, I'm perfectly fine with the gauntlets and boots being paired, and I can live with pauldrons being gone, but removing greaves is going to cause a lot of problems for the various screenshooters who have come to rely heavily on mix-and-match. There are a lot of player out there who mix-and-match, too. Removing the greaves is going to be destructive to people looking for a unique outfit for their character.

All I will say is, go save up a twenty, go down and purchase Morrowind GOTY from Best Buy, install it, play it, and you will realize just how much Oblivion fell short of expectations.

wider audience mean stupid people, who surprisingly constitute 70% of the earth's population, and by stupid I don't mean it as an insult, stupid here means they just have not learned how to focus there minds on anything else but mating and eating which is disturbing.

but don't be sad the other 30% are actually using a small portion of mental power, but also sadly 50% of the 30% use it for negative processing which only result in self termination and sometimes, in some unfortunate situations, the termination of many other life forms.

humans are wired :shrug:

but don't worry an eventually balance always seems to find its way, so skyrim will be much better than OB and MW, not epic ... but wayyyyyyy better which is great.

And I am dead honest when I say I didn't steal it!

:toughninja:

Why am I pessimistic about Skyrim? Simple. What I've seen doesn't sit well with me so far. From what I've seen, it feels like they've taken one step forward, and like 5 steps back. What I've seen so far from Skyrim doesn't appeal to me like Morrowind and Oblivion did. If anything, it seems to want to drive me away from Skyrim further and further each time I hear more news. So how can I be optimistic about something that I'm not liking so far? And the better question is why should I?

Why else? I'd rather be pleasantly surprised by Skyrim (good case pessimism) than severely disappointed like I'm sure a good amount of the very optimistic people will be (bad case optimism).

Also, I'm just pessimistic by nature, because of many things that have happened in my life, but I'm not going to spill those personal matters all over you guys.

Hope that answers your question.

Hey guess what...
Oblivion had a rich lore-filled world too! It brought quite enough new books too, if you talk to people they also give insight into the culture and background. Sadly they don't show it or use it well in Oblivion, but saying that it doesn't even exist is just ignorant.
As for nonlinear quests and consequences, in Morrowind, quest non-linearity ended in "do something to this guy, or kill him" and killing that guy hardly had any later consequence.


Oh I did, guess what other things I've found!
A lot of things Morrowind falls short compared to Oblivion, and I'm not talking about graphics...

Please, don't say the combat system. That's because it was more RPG-ish dice-based, aka almost another genre.

Oh there's more than that.

But the combat system fails as an RPG-ish system as well, because it requires way too much player skill for that. Best example is ranged combat, where not only you have to roll high enough, you also need to hit the enemy physically, which is much harder when the enemy moves...
Dagerfall did it much better, but even that had problems...

Yes, Morrowind had problems, and the combat was surely one of them. Sneaking was another, whoever thought up the original sneak system for Morrowind needs to be shot.

But on the topic of lore, I always got the impression that Morrowind did a much better job of integrating it into the world and using it to add to the experience. In Oblivion, it's just there, to be learned, but never experienced to its full potential.

I don't care about how many new books are added by a game, or how many dialogue references you make to the rest of the world. If you are expressing the lore through words over actions, you are doing it wrong. Morrowind didn't just tell you what was going on throughout Vvardenfell in terms of conflict, strife, and major issues, it showed you and let you draw your own conclusions. In Oblivion, all the conclusions are pre-decided, and it doesn't allow for a lot of player interpretation. We are never asked to choose a side on who's political agendas we most support (Morrowind's Great Houses), and I never got the feeling there was any rivalry between any of the game's major cities.

As for culture, what culture? Generic Fantasy Imperial Culture #3445324? What's so special about that? Why is that noteworthy?

But I digress, yes, Morrowind had it's fair share of problems. Oblivion was disappointing to me because it just exchanged one set of problems for another. Morrowind had gameplay issues, but Oblivion had storytelling issues.

Hey Nick! Feel free to tell the guys in the office about the complaints of people.

This. As bad as it sounds, I have been burned too many times, so keeping low expectations and expecting the worst is the way to go for me. If the game turns out poor, no big deal. If it is great, Then I will eat my words and play an amazing game!

That being said, I know that Skyrim won't be terrible, but I also don't expect it to be as good as Morrowind or perhaps Oblivion. The UI and things being removed from the game are enough to convince me of that. I just haven't seen anything other than dragons, modified scaling, and slightly upgraded graphics to convince me that this is a huge improvement for the series. If I am wrong, GREAT, bring it on! If I am right, no big deal. I will still get to play a solid action game.

Not really, while maybe it is a little exagerated, it's easy to hit someone if you put your "weapon-skill" on Major. Yeah, if you have "Axe 5" it's perfectly obvious why you can't hit s**t with that kind of weapon. The "problem" with Morrowind is that, when you create your character, you have to actually think about what you are doing. You can't pretend to have a Mage if you pump to the max only your melee and armor skills.

Oblivion did some good things, but really, whats with all the skills removed ( and with the poor content )? I maybe understand Axe merged with Blunt ( a bit ), but where the hell Short Blade and Long Blade are? I don't like my character being able to use a dagger in the same way he uses a long sword. There is technically nothing wrong with that, but you feel like using the same freaking weapon, just with different stats.

And this is just b***ing, don't get me started on the serious part, like how the world is in black and white morality. And speaking of black and white...


Actually, it was more complicated than that. While sometimes you still had to "do something to this guy, or kill him", you had more freedom about what to do with the whole thing. Also, if you join a faction and do missions for them, some of the other ones will start to hate you. Yes, even if you're a part of them. Isn't that a consequence?

I could even steal s**t from people and sell it wherever I want.
OH, looks like the RPG-ish game with omgugly combat system tried a more believable approach. OH! THE IRONY!

Play Morrowind and try some side quests, look how "gray" the morality is, and how many different shades of it there are. Look how deep the detail of the world is. It's not just quests, it's everything. IT'S THE WHOLE THING AROUND YOU.

Oblivion is all OMG SHINY GOOD KNIGHTS OMG DARK EVIL BEASTS.