Hey, what's that? We are talking about supporting Steam by uploading mods to it, not supporting the Skyrim devs for making a good game. There are alternatives to the first thing, you know. There's no legal alternative to installing Steam to be able to play Skyrim.
And of course they care about their image (even oil companies do so) and thus by critisizing them we do not support them, but do the opposite.
If someone points a gun at me, saying "your money or your life", then I do not support him by giving him my money. There's simply no alternative to that unless I have very good reflexes...

I do really wish Steam wasn't mandatory. Have nothing personal against it, I suppose, but forcing it on me isn't going to endear me to the program any.

Another reason for not uploading mod to Steam Workshop: now I cannot package even the files into the BSA, the CK says "Archive creation failed" and that's it. It may be related to the number of files, I don't know. Is there a limit of the number of files a BSA can contain?

Why not publish to Steam Workshop?

"Why publish there?" I would ask. The Nexus is an excellent site; simple, easy to use, with no messy restrictions on advlt content. Why change?

this dude knows the truth! all steam workshop worshipers listen to him!

To reach a broader audience? Then more people have access to more mods. It's not like you have to choose between one or the other. You can do both...

I just deleted my mod from Steam.

Thanks for the heads up on their EULA.

That was a massive overreaction IMO. Valve's EULA cannot supersede the one Bethesda already asserts over CK generated material.

...or neither?

There are plenty of other hosting sites which allow modders to do whatever they like, within reason.

Unfortunately, none of them have a big audience at present. So, the dilemma for independent modders is whether to live with a small cult following, or contribute to the big sites, thereby giving them even more power over us.

We've said a lot about Steam, but, of the two, the Nexus is probably better placed to address these misgivings. A more passive moderation approach (like the BBC, for example) would help.

I don't think it was an overreaction.

As long as there is at least the conflict between gamesas and Steam, leave me out of it.

I've spent a whopping amount of time on my mod. Until things change at the Workshop it will not be there.

I choose to publish my mods on Steam Workshop because it's the most convenient mechanism for players of Skyrim: just subscribe and it works. In addition, it's very convenient for me as a modder too, because it is officially supported by Bethesda in the CK. The fact that Valve and Bethesda worked together on this, gives me the confidence that nothing untoward will happen to my mods (regardless of what rights Valve could potentially choose to excercise), but even if it did: big deal! It's not like it's work. I expect to get compensated for work. For this type of stuff, a couple of nice comments from fellow players are all I'm hoping to get out of it.

Have any of you "Valve is trying to steal my stuff"-types given any thought to what it would mean for Steam Workshop if you don't grant those rights? If modders had the ability to NOT grant or withdraw any of the rights set forth in the agreement, Valve could potentially be held responsible by modders based on the existence of a mod on even one of its customers harddrives. Or it would be held responsible by customers for games that suddenly stopped working or had diminished functionality.

IMO, Valve has a rightful need to protect itself (and Bethesda too) from people who try to bend the rules in their favor. Not doing so would open Valve up to litigation from millions of customers at the whim of thousands of modders.

I personally am insulted by the workshop. It is primarily the reason why I have been so slow jumping into modding this time around. It seems like a buggy, legally invasive and cumbersome attempt to further cash in on the community without offering anything in return.

Shameless. And the way it has the community rallying like brown shirt nazi's about the evils of charging for TIME and WORK put into making the company more money through replay value? Truly disappointing. An opportunity for a revolution in gaming wasted on greed, and the community supports it? My soul weeps for our future.

That aside, the fact there is no effective way to manage resources, to keep track of files installed by mods, visualize conflicts like Wrye allows, and just the counter-intuitive way it handles installation, makes it in my view a poorly designed piece of software on top of my previous gripes.

At least we have the Nexus. I personally just pretend the Workshop doesn't exist at all, to avoid losing faith in Bethesda as a company.

I'm... s... What?

I'm not exactly for the workshop, but... what?

Just an example of how big corporations are completely out of touch with the reality of PEOPLE.

In worse economic conditions then have been seen in modern times, with human labor jobs being obsoleted by technology at an unsustainable rate, the time has come for a new digital economic paradigm.

Someone has to LEAD to make this happen. In my view if you don't plan to step up and accept that challenge of making history, you shouldn't go mucking around with a system that already works.

To tag on all the ownership clauses they have with this, effectively stripping modders of ALL rights and creative control to their contributed intellectual property, is not only NOT a step forward, it is an insulting step BACK from what most of us in the modding community for years have already enjoyed.

But take it with a grain. You know what they say about opinions.

What do you think the Workshop is for? Why are you making your mods? Are you expecting Valve or Bethesda to pay you? Are you expecting them to steal your mod and deny you have made it?

You are constantly agreeing to similar formal contracts everywhere and most of the time they are there to avoid problems for the company itself. They need to have conditions like that so that every other Steam user won't be suing them for "using their mods to make money" or whatever reason.

Ask a common PC Skyrim player what they think of the Workshop. I think most will say it's great. You are modding for the players, right? Aren't you happy to see people are enjoying your mod and have an easy and "official" way to access it? You will still get the credit for it.

I, personally, just want to see some downloads whenever the mod is done and released (which I hope is possible via the Workshop). For me, the modding itself and getting the mod out there is the most important thing. I wouldn't even care if Valve or Bethesda somehow "stole" it. And they wouldn't, it'd hurt them a lot more than it would hurt me.

Just be happy that we have the possibility and the tools to make mods to begin with and a channel to release them directly to the players.

What is this modern propaganda brainwashing that when a corporation pursues money as their only motive they are some sort of capitalist American heroes, but when INDIVIDUALS expect to be able to charge some meaningless tiny fee (like 25 cents?) for work they spend weeks or months on, they are evil greedy ungrateful bastards? An example of the decay of morality, fairness, and sanity in our monopoly-driven greed-based capitalist economic failboat.


People are constantly being shot and [censored] and killed everywhere. By that logic, does it make it less offensive if I were to do it? I know that's not what you meant, but think about what you are saying. It would be like the people who say the modern invasion of privacy surveillance technologies used against our own people even in the "privacy" of their homes is somehow "OK" because it is being used everywhere. At some point, greed takes things too far.


Well THIS PC player does NOT think it is great. Yes, I do enjoy seeing others benefit from my work. But you talk as though having the opportunity to be rewarded by more than ego stroke points is somehow mutually exclusive. Why can't you mod for players AND have the option to be rewarded for your efforts?

Again, the double standards are sickening. When corporations do it they are heroes. When individuals ask for some MINOR concessions, to have the same opportunity, they are villains.

You do realize Bethesda LICENSES the majority of their engine? Gamebryo, speed tree, Havok, etc. They wrote NONE OF IT.

By this logic they should be criminalized for expecting to gain financially for their derivative works. Well let me tell you something. Companies like Bethesda would be NOTHING if forward-thinking companies like the aforementioned refused to license their products to be used in for-profit endeavors.

Bethesda's refusal to make this available to their community is the two steps back to their step forward modding engine.

Again, in my opinion.

I mostly agree with your opinions on corporations and the EULA as well. But in to be honest, I don't really care about any of that in this context.

I'm volunteering here. I'm not expecting to get paid for modding. If you are, you probably shouldn't do it. Who should pay the modders anyway, the players? If you publish your mod anywhere else than the Workshop, you still won't get paid and Bethesda will (in a way). I'm not making content for Valve or Bethesda, I'm making it for the community. Using my time, for free, for fun, and I like it that way.

Steam dont allow mods bigger than 100 mb so it is useless... There is no way to customizethe file uploads. With variations stuff and aplies mature restrictions ...

Unfortunately seems they cared more for small mods and simple stuff , big mods are out of their vision. For big stuff I guess they only consider official Dlc.