You want a successful game, Zen? Sit down, and pay attention : Othor Games

» Mon May 14, 2012 6:27 pm

You're drawing conclusions about gameplay mechanics based on a word and half a sentence. That would be the definition of pulling things out of thin air (or other places).

You can talk in circles about prior experience all you like, but the simple fact is that you're going entirely based on assumptions, not real information.

And when the game turns out to be the exact way it's being perceived, not only by me, but by others as well, I'll be able to send you the message 'I told you so.'

» Tue May 15, 2012 3:17 am

And when the game turns out to be the exact way it's being perceived, not only by me, but by others as well, I'll be able to send you the message 'I told you so.'

So if it doesn't turn out that way, I assume I get a parade.

Knee-jerk reactions only end up hurting your chin (and your knee, if you have an exceptionally strong chin).

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:22 pm

hmm you seams to think you know it better than Zenimax Online?

Heres the deal, go to kickstarter.com, gather some money and start your own Game.

Im sure with your Eternal Wisdom you will gather several Millions in a few Hours.

I think you've been spamming that all day, i get your point but did Zenimax hire you to go around spamming that on every forum?

» Tue May 15, 2012 1:39 am

Half of you folks are calling out those who want the game to be changed for the better idiots while the other half is, actually, trying to provide constructive criticism. We understand the fact that they'd be throwing away 5 years development and tons of money already spent, but you know what? If they did that, if they botched it all and turned around to say "Hey, these are the fans of TES and they've got a point. Let's take a listen and change what they want us to that way the game is the best it can possibly be and we're gonna put in another 5 years to make it work," they would achieve both the most massive amount of applause any game company has ever garnered from its fans, and the best game possible that we've all been hoping for. And by the looks of it so far, the way that they're doing it with what they got right now, they're not making the best game possible, they're not stepping it up a notch, they're just repeating a formula being done by another MMO instead of taking from the original game and using it to make that best game.

(Again, my opinion, but still.)

But if they scrapped it there stock holders wouldn't be very happy would they?

» Mon May 14, 2012 9:00 pm

While you were reading about how the game will be a 'traditional MMO' did you not read that there are: No quest hubs, no holy trinity, open dungeons, dynamic, organic world content, action based combat where you can block, use stamina to break cc, sprint, etc. I could go on, but instead I recommend you read your sources more carefully and with a more open mind.

Cept that means nothing to me since Ironically enough I don't play mmo games. I have an open mind, everything I see so far is bland and plain. I won't go over the points i've said them many times before. If you gave me enough reason to buy this game I would, if it were truly special I would get it. So far though? No, just no

» Tue May 15, 2012 4:41 am

Agree with everything in the OP.

"You havnt played it yet!"

Look. A lot of people have been around for MMO launches for years now and were pretty good at seeing through the PR, especially those of us who are also TES fans. Ive read all the GI leaks and while there are a couple of interesting points the rest of it puts me off, it IS another generic MMO that has nothing to do with The Elder Scrolls besides the brand name for marketing.

I see fixed character classes and generic combat, and no NPC interaction/NPCs standing around with "!" over their heads. And a monthly fee is the biggest clue for them just wanting a cashout.

Really if they had released a TES co-op game that allowed for say... 4-8 players per world and scaled enemies up to be similar to a Diablo game, I would have gone nuts for it. But this MMO? No, I would rather just go play Warcraft because its had 5+ years of polishing that no other WoW-clone can compete with because they copy launch-WoW instead of the current WoW(not that I have any intent on playing WoW anymore, which is my point - I dont want to play another WoW).

» Mon May 14, 2012 8:53 pm

Well, I wish I had your powers of perception, because I'm incapable of determining whether a game is a WoW-clone moneymaking venture based solely on a few screenshots and a vague preview article.

The article indicates its like GW2/DAOC, neither of which are influenced by WoW.

The WoW-Clone calls are from pure anger/rage, and 100% incorrect.

It only hampers real criticism and real debates. Its foolish.

» Mon May 14, 2012 4:48 pm

I'm so lost... how can it be a WoW clone? Did you read the informer articles? NO quest hubs, advanced AI's that react to different situations and game play, non dependent healer class, explorable maps with no guides, reactionary combat, clearing a public dungeon that might benefit or hurt another player elsewhere in the world. You're right - clone.

i played DAOC and the combat system is not what you make it out to be....

tes players want a reactive action based combat system, at least most i know. While DAOC didnt have Skill rotiations ackin to WoW (well to some degree it did) but it still didnt have any collision and autoattack and all the other nonsense. it was all math and no actual playerskill in the sense of an action oriented battle system. so no DAOC is not what we need for a TES MMO.

» Tue May 15, 2012 12:20 am

The article indicates its like GW2/DAOC, neither of which are influenced by WoW.

The WoW-Clone calls are from pure anger/rage, and 100% incorrect.

It only hampers real criticism and real debates. Its foolish.

All mmo's are the same. But i'll do my best to say;

GW2 clone or DAOC clone in future.

» Mon May 14, 2012 8:19 pm

All mmo's are the same. But i'll do my best to say;

GW2 clone or DAOC clone in future.

GW2 is very different from WoW. Its like calling CoD:KidWarfare very similiar to Tribes:Ascend.

» Mon May 14, 2012 9:57 pm

Half of you folks are calling out those who want the game to be changed for the better idiots while the other half is, actually, trying to provide constructive criticism. We understand the fact that they'd be throwing away 5 years development and tons of money already spent, but you know what?

(Again, my opinion, but still.)

Just want to ask that you not say that half of the folks here idiots or their opinions idiocy since we have a rule against such sorts of flaming of groups of members. Everyone thinks a bit differently and wants different things and being able to express those things without being bashed or demeaned for their thoughts or opinions is what this forum strives for.

It's best to either try and see the others side or point of view and then debate the points in a respectful way or just don't comment on it at all. Thanks for understanding. And thanks for allowing me to reply to you so that I could remind everyone to remain respectful of even those with whom you disagree.

» Tue May 15, 2012 4:27 am

Its like calling CoD:KidWarfare very similiar to Tribes:Ascend.

Well I know nothing about those games so I'll take your word for it

» Mon May 14, 2012 1:07 pm

LOL, you guys haven't even seen the game in action yet, and you think think you know how to make it better?

A: They aren't gonna throw 5 years of work + many millions of dollars invested down the tube cause some forum troll told them to.
B: Wait until you actually see the game played and heard info from the mouths of ZOS developers before you decry the game as a failure.

Seriously, lets get real.

It like to extend that argument and add that in the case of MMO's, it's not even enough to see the game, you actually have to play it, since the do-or-die question usually isn't whether the gameplay is good now, but months or even years down the line.

» Mon May 14, 2012 5:53 pm

Just want to ask that you not say that half of the folks here idiots or their opinions idiocy since we have a rule against such sorts of flaming of groups of members. Everyone thinks a bit differently and wants different things and being able to express those things without being bashed or demeaned for their thoughts or opinions is what this forum strives for.

It's best to either try and see the others side or point of view and then debate the points in a respectful way or just don't comment on it at all. Thanks for understanding. And thanks for allowing me to reply to you so that I could remind everyone to remain respectful of even those with whom you disagree. :smile:

Sorry, let me clarify, I wasn't calling anyone idiots, I'm saying that half the folks are being called idiots. Apologies for the mis-wording, looking back at it I can see where that came from.

» Mon May 14, 2012 10:00 pm

You want them to scrap 5 years of development and huge amounts of investments?

So far it looks like they may have taken their five years of development and investments and flushed it all down the toilet. :shrug:

» Mon May 14, 2012 4:17 pm

So far it looks like they may have taken their five years of development and investments and flushed it all down the toilet. :shrug:

You make that assessment based on ONE screenshot and nothing but speculation?

I predicted the timefreame and cause of a company I used to work for going out of business, and ultimately I was 95% accurate. Bit I had a lot more data to base my projections on. And the only reason I wasn't 100% accurate was because I gave the suits too much credit. The company went out of business sooner than I anticipated, but the causes were all what I predicted.

We won't know whether or not this game will flop until at least 30 days after its release, when people have or have not been paying a subscription for at least a month.

And an MMO does not need to make as much money as WoW, or have as many subscribers. It just needs to have enough subscribers to make enough money to clear operations costs and have money left over. If it ends 60 days of operation in the red and after 90 days it hasn't moved into the black, then it can be called a failure, and either ahutdown or a freemium businiess conversion will happen, which based on what happened with Dungeons and Dragons Online will result in it operating in the black. and they will have to proactively work to make sure it stays that way.

But now, right after the announcement, we have nowhere near the data necessary to determine market viability, or lack thereof.

» Mon May 14, 2012 9:42 pm

Seriously?

Why does every poster here seem to think that they're better at game development than a team of professionals?

Maybe because we actually play these games, unlike the suits who greenlit this subpar project founded on archaic and obsolete mechanisms.

First-person live combat is THE integral element of TES that has made it stand out and sell millions. It would make this game a hugely successful venture, and a top contender in a genre that is STARVING for innovation, but instead the suits have sold out all that made TES successful in exchange for yet another wow-clone. They don't understand the mmo market and why copying WoW is a bad idea, precisely because they lack the first-hand knowledge and familiarity that comes with playing these games.

Consequently, they don't want to create an innovative game, they want to sell an old game back to us with a new skin and a new brand-name.

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:55 pm

Dear Zenimax,
In case you haven't understood that the TES community is disappointed by the way TES:O is going
Do you want to have a clue if people will be interested in your TES online? Check how many people are reading in this section of the forums...If the number is less then Skyrim general discussion section(and it is by now) then it means something is wrong. I remember the days when Skyrim was announced and the forums were about to explode for at least a couple of weeks...Just an observation :shrug:

» Mon May 14, 2012 3:13 pm

Dear Zenimax,
In case you haven't understood that the TES community is disappointed by the way TES:O is going
Do you want to have a clue if people will be interested in your TES online? Check how many people are reading in this section of the forums...If the number is less then Skyrim general discussion section(and it is by now) then it means something is wrong. I remember the days when Skyrim was announced and the forums were about to explode for at least a couple of weeks...Just an observation :shrug:

I would imagine that is because many and maybe even most TES series players enjoy single player games and that is part of what many of us come here for. That said there has been a long history of members who have come to tell us they would like an MMO. There are many MMO players that won't touch an individual player game. Lots of them just enjoy playing online with their friends across the world and enjoy the competition in an MMO setting. Many of those folks have yet to hear about the release and until GameInformer hits the newstands many won't. So what we have here are many TES fans coming and worrying about what will happen to that series and a few mmo gamers coming in to check out what's happening. Those leave quickly because they don't want to wade through all the negativity and basically there is not a whole lot of information yet.

I expect that as time goes by those here now will lose interest due to not being interested in the game and those interested will come to the forum, discuss the aspects of this game and become excited for a new choice in the MMO experience. Then this forum will move to a new home and have their own fans. Some of those fans will be some of us TES fans who enjoy a good MMO on occasion and some will be MMO fans and still others will be new fans that will be added to the Elder Scrolls fan clan and become fans of the series we all love.

Everybody gets something. That's how I like the world.

» Mon May 14, 2012 5:09 pm

I think that makes really good sense, Summer!

» Mon May 14, 2012 6:40 pm

The biggest, BIGGEST gripe; the art style. Elder Scrolls have this dark, gritty look. They feel and play medieval. There is no room for stylized fantasy graphics in an ES game. People immerse themselves in the medieval setting partly due to the wonderfully detailed world, and partly because the world 'feels' real. No Wow-style armor and weapons. A man in a cloak might be the strongest wizzard in the realm but he is not running around in flashy t13 armor in ES games.
What we've seen so far (and unless you intend to spend the entire year till release changing the art style and graphics) is so generic that might as welll be a Rift expansion. If you take out this "medieval style" , this won't feel like an ES game at all.
I'm sure many more people would stick with a game that LOOKED like an ES game, regardless of tab-target combat, instances, etc.

I agree.

+1 again.

» Tue May 15, 2012 4:04 am

Just want to ask that you not say that half of the folks here idiots or their opinions idiocy since we have a rule against such sorts of flaming of groups of members. Everyone thinks a bit differently and wants different things and being able to express those things without being bashed or demeaned for their thoughts or opinions is what this forum strives for.

Everyone thinks a bit differently, but...isn't it odd that most of the people on these forums, other forums, are all relating in the way they dislike how the game is, at this point so far?

Quite odd, in my opinion.

While, you may, or may not support the new TES:O, the fact of the matter is, it should blend in well with the single player game.

Why you might ask? Well; for one, there shouldn't be a huge graphic/texture change for the MMO, it should stick to the art style that ES has had. Two, there shouldn't be a "like WoW" combat system. Scrap it, it wont work, as stated by many, many others.

Other than that i guess we'll have to wait and see if ZeniMax listens to the player-base.

If they don't listen to what countless people agree upon, then i guess they're digging their own grave.

"Without the little people, there would be no King"

» Tue May 15, 2012 5:06 am

Do people really think they can write letters to Bethesda through these forums ? ? ?

Don't people get that Bethesda DOES NOT CARE? They're too big !

» Mon May 14, 2012 10:21 pm

Do people really think they can write letters to Bethesda through these forums ? ? ?

Don't people get that Bethesda DOES NOT CARE? They're too big !

More importantly, Don't people get it that Bethesda is not developing this game?

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:56 pm

First-person live combat is THE integral element of TES that has made it stand out and sell millions.

After reading this statement I realized there is nothing to discuss here and these posts are a waste of time. For me 1st (or 3rd) person live combat in Skyrim really make me cringe at how bad it is. I dread to imagine what it's like in the previous installments.

I really do not believe that the combat action is the main selling point of these games. It wasn't even the main selling point of Mass Effect 2 even though its combat was light years ahead of TES games.