Abolishing the Term "dumbing down" : V - Skyrim

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:56 am

To start this statement is an exceptionally hackneyed expression on these forums despite the fact that it is the least intelligent way to express a sentiment. In addition, it exhibits that you have not put in the time to come up with a reasonable objection to a feature of the game and that you are just merely attacking it with a trivial, overused statement. If you are going to criticize the work that Bethesda put into making the game, at least take the time to articulate your complaint thoroughly and with adherence to the rules of grammar. Don't complain about something that took massive effort to achieve without at least putting some time in come up with a respectable argument.

Great point, Skyrim is certainly not dumbed down, more like a tweaked formula that does the same thing but a little bit differently.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:26 am

No they really didn't, all they did was change was random dialog you hear and skyrim's quests do that too.

I'm the archmage and I'm still running around collecting lost alembics.
I'm the guild master of the thieves guild and they still talk to me like I'm some newblood.

If that's not immersion-killing I don't know what is.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:41 am

No they really didn't, all they did was change was random dialog you hear and skyrim's quests do that too.

So a person saying its south of X and West of Y when it was really like 1 square to the west and like 40 squares south isnt misleading?

They gave no magnitudes on the directions at all, the "directions" covered a massive amount of game world half the time.

A direction without magnitude is worthless.

And yet I never had a problem finding anything, you must of had diffrent game or something.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:19 am

No but it's no excuse to claim Skyrim is somehow inferior to previous game because of it

Well, seeing as Skyrim's Factions are nothing more than glorified side quests that anybody can do, it is safe to say they are inferior, or rather, the faction system is pretty much absent.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:15 am

Call me a Daggerfall fan, but when you have a game space the size of a Wal-Mart Supercenter and call it a country... cities the size of a neighborhood culdesac, and towns the size of a lemonaid stand, people better damn well know everything from who slept with who to who saved the world.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:22 am

I'm the archmage and I'm still running around collecting lost alembics.
I'm the guild master of the thieves guild and they still talk to me like I'm some newblood.

If that's not immersion-killing I don't know what is.

Its better then in Morrowind when after you beat the quest-line everything suddenly stops.

Besides that no one MAKES you do those things, and both members of the thieves guild and The college make frequent mention of my leader status

Well, seeing as Skyrim's Factions are nothing more than glorified side quests that anybody can do, it is safe to say they are inferior, or rather, the faction system is pretty much absent.

you mean like Morrowinds guilds that anyone could get through by paying a master trainer some paltry sum to level their skills?

the level requirements were useless as ANYONE could get past them with ease.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:31 am

The word, "dumbed down," is in the dictionary, but I seldom see people using it correctly. It does not mean "streamlined" or "simplified."

It implies anti-intellectualism.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:01 am

Funny thing is most of the few there are, aren't lesser in any way.

Yes, they are. Actually read them.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:37 pm

Yes, they are. Actually read them.

Ive gone through every book in Skyrim and the new ones really aren't any lesser.

They cover a different subject matter then previous books do but in terms of writing they aren't inferior.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:12 am

So a person saying its south of X and West of Y when it was really like 1 square to the west and like 40 squares south isnt misleading?

They gave no magnitudes on the directions at all, the "directions" covered a massive amount of game world half the time.

A direction without magnitude is worthless.

Have you ever asked anyone in real life directions and still not found the place? that`s because you didn`t listen or they got it wrong.

I know for a fact I gave someone directions once and when they were gone, I thought `oops! I didn`t mean right, i meant left!`

It`s human to make mistakes and NO ONE ever knows their compass well enough to say `head east` and to be accurate without a compass.

But it did made things harder, i`ll admit.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:48 am

you mean like Morrowinds guilds that anyone could get through by paying a master trainer some platry sum to level their skills?

Morrowind's "factions" that had requirements specific to the nature of the faction, unlike Skyrim. You could do that if you wanted to.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:07 am

Ive gone through every book in Skyrim and the new ones really aren't any lesser.

Then you haven't really read them. It really is night and day. From A Game at Dinner, or The Real Barenziah, compared to the latter stuff. A lot of people notice, I'm not the only one.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:06 am

...But the questing is easy and there is no action and consequence. Give me another term and i'll use it gladly.

Thrilled to be playing another TES game but i think the phrase is meritted when criticising some of the game.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:57 pm

Morrowind's "factions" that had requirements specific to the nature of the faction, unlike Skyrim. You could do that if you wanted to.

And as I pointed out those "requirements" were totally useless as ANYONE could get around them with even a moderately high amount of gold, which due to Morrowind's nature of throwing enchanted items at you every 5 feet was just about everyone who ever played the game.

Any time you couldn't get past something using a sword there was almost always a conveniently placed potion, scrolls, or low level spell you would be taught to help you.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:14 am

To start this statement is an exceptionally hackneyed expression on these forums despite the fact that it is the least intelligent way to express a sentiment. In addition, it exhibits that you have not put in the time to come up with a reasonable objection to a feature of the game and that you are just merely attacking it with a trivial, overused statement. If you are going to criticize the work that Bethesda put into making the game, at least take the time to articulate your complaint thoroughly and with adherence to the rules of grammar. Don't complain about something that took massive effort to achieve without at least putting some time in come up with a respectable argument.

There have been so many good arguments against Skyrim that have been called "Whining" it's pathetic.

"Dumbing Down" is the truth about TES in the last 2 games. Unfortunatly as long as the Dev team stays as is it will continue to get "Dumbed Down"

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:25 pm

Then you haven't really read them. It really is night and day. From A Game at Dinner, or The Real Barenziah, compared to the latter stuff. A lot of people notice, I'm not the only one.

This. The writing in the previous games is far superior.
I think this guy is just hell-bent on defending Skyrim no matter what.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:40 am

IMO it should not be abolished.

"Dumbing Down" is not the most eloquent way to put it, but IMO its certainly accurate and it includes an obvious (and appropriate) connotation of discontent from those that choose to use the term.

Its not Bethesda alone ~its industry wide; and with reason... The games sell [potentially] better so why shouldn't any (and every) company follow suit; and follow a formula that works (to sell more games)?

** Independent developers are the only ones that can risk their budget on a gamble, or an absolute niche product. This actually does not bother me much ~it’s only a bother when that niche gets bought and reformulated into ... a game that sells better. :sadvaultboy:

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:16 am

This. The writing in the previous games is far superior.
I think this guy is just hell-bent on defending Skyrim no matter what.

No, I just don't agree.

Its called Opinion and just because not everyone agrees with yours does not make it a conspiracy.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:59 pm

This. The writing in the previous games is far superior.
I think this guy is just hell-bent on defending Skyrim no matter what.

there are obviously exceptions, not every book is more 'advanced' in the earlier games, just as a whole. It was one of the first big things I noticed as soon as my bibliophile RP started collecting Skyrim exclusive books.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:36 am

personally, i find anyone who thinks a certain term like `dumbing down` should be `abolished` is deluded in the extreme.

What next? Anything the OP finds irritating?

Idiocy.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:56 pm

How about using "Over simplification of game mechanics to appeal to a wider audience that is unable to appreciate a game with any sort of significant learning curve".

Its a lot longer to type, but I guess that it could work. I myself hate political correctness of any form. Whatever you choose to call something doesn't change what it is.

this, this isn't a dumbed down response,

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:40 am

And as I pointed out those "requirements" were totally useless as ANYONE could get around them with even a moderately high amount of gold, which due to Morrowind's nature of throwing enchanted items at you every 5 feet was just about everyone who ever played the game.

There were loopholes in the faction systems in the previous games, but they existed nonetheless. I'm guessing that, as a roleplaying game, they didn't intend on people to work the faction system like that.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:38 am

Then you haven't really read them. It really is night and day. From A Game at Dinner, or The Real Barenziah, compared to the latter stuff. A lot of people notice, I'm not the only one.

I could just as easily say if you think Skyrim is "dumbed down", then you haven't really played it.

I mean, if you're going to go that route...

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:36 am

I could just as easily say if you think Skyrim is "dumbed down", then you haven't really played it. I mean, if you're going to go that route...

Oh dear, not you again.

Meh, I'm out. Sins of a Solar Empire time.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:13 am

There were loopholes in the faction systems in the previous games, but they existed nonetheless. I'm guessing that, as a roleplaying game, they didn't intend on people to work the faction system like that.

So what your saying is that Bethesda was too stupid to see that with "unlimited skill training per level + low skill training costs + guilds with reqs" that people would use it to get around the guild Reqs?

Please