This game is dumbed down.

Oh god, I'm going to be sick.

It's art style has technical wise it has NO improvement what so ever. Only time graphics make any difference is when your talking about games such as MGS4 or Uncharted looking great that cannot applied to Skyrim because it is overwhelming to the console either 360 or PS3 because they are limited but Graphics overall in each of TES has not improved at all.

Speaking of, wikipedia has an article if you really need a handle on what dumbing down means.

Actually it was stolen. I gutted the son of a [censored] and put his head on a stake on my balcony.

Yes, the phrase is regularly misused. There is no doubt about that. And yet there are certain things in the game that have been removed or altered in order to simplify. Another (perhaps cruel) way of wording that would be that the developers have aimed toward the 'lowest common denominator'. Another shorter version is to say that some elements have been 'dumbed down'.

That's modern easy-speak for you. But the term exists and it is listed in the Oxford English Dictionary, and as long as it is used appropriately, it is fine to do so.

I can tell debating this with you is going to be pointless.

If you really think the only difference between Oblivion's and Skyrim's graphics is art style then you either haven't played Skyrim or are just so hellbent on blaming something else that you rufuse to accept it.


Also MGS4 and Uncharted have the befit of Blu-Ray which most PC players and the Xbox don't.

Subsituting dumbed down for simplify doesn't work, Simplifying in of itself isn't bad, its how that simplification takes place and what gets simplified, when you simplify things that weren't complicated to begin with / cut options / merge things so that instead of either or, it becomes this and that. making choices pointless in the long run and instead of many rivers to many ends you have one river to one end then yes

Dumbing down is appropriate.

If you really want to use the term, go ahead. I think it sounds rather unintelligent but that is not the real issue. The real issue is that it is often used in place of an argument, rather than to supplement one.

No, I criticise your post because you are entirely wrong and I want you to know with certainty.

The phrase `dumbing-down` is designed so it is understood by everyone. It gets straght to the point. Then most, if not all of us, will detail why.

It would be easy to make a more articulate phrase or wording, but this would not get to the point as succinctly as the word `dumbing-down`. Everyone understands what dumbing down means almost immediately.

The fact you don`t like it actually shows its effectiveness at hitting right in the target. It is effective.

If you wanted to make a thread that actually adds value, you should have chosen the phrase `THIS SUX!"

As that is a term often used with no explanation behind it whatsoever.

So in the future, when the series has devolved to the point where instead of directions or compass markers there is simply a big red button next to a quest in your journal that when pushed will simply teleport your character to the next step in the quest....

What term would you use then to describe the games development direction?

Dumbing down is a very appropriate term for the games in general. Removing functional features because they are simply "too complex" for the target audience is summed up quite nicely with "dumbed down". If you appreciate that particular develoment move, then don't be offended by it. It is what it is.

"The game is dumbed down because there are no attributes and my choices don't mean anything." This is the use I am arguing against, which is the most popular use. In addition, I am attempting to convey that your example is not necessarily "dumbing down" so much as a reflection of the fact that a game can't have everything. Many players would be overwhelmed if the complexity of every field was expanded or maintained in addition to the introduction of new fields.

Idiot proofed.

Seriously, even look at Todd's PR. He actually said people were ruining their builds with birth signs, so that's why they removed them. How do you ruin a build with a birth sign? Were these people just randomly pressing buttons at character creation? Are these the people that Beth should even be appealing to? Auto health regen, no degradation, all of the over simplification? I call it Idiot proofing. Just straight cutting though I use the term dumbing down.

From my experience, "dumbing down" and "THIS SUX" are almost synonymous, and are both used quite frequently without any explanation. I am sorry if I have offended the few of you that do use it in a constructive manner. I have created this thread for the very reason you think I should create one regarding the term "this sux," so thank you for adding validity to my claims. If you think the term is used more efficiently than "THIS SUX," congratulations, but I disagree. You can back "THIS SUX" with an argument just as easily as "dumbing down," but neither are often supported, they typically are just used as a complaint devoid of explanation. You are free to disagree but unless you can come up with a better argument, I will remain resolute in my opinion.

I used to write intelligently, but then I took an arrow in the elbow.

and I'd believe you had previous games of the TES series I've played did not have what I wanted in Skyrim. I don't need complexity for complexities sake, what I need are Options and the means to get to them, what past games offered in their own way and what Skyrim lacks for reasons I can only attribute to "wth were they thinking during the past 3 year full dev cycle"

that would be the case if that is why they were removed, but it isn't.

Yes, it is, especially if you go by Beths PR.

You are presenting a completely unrealistic scenario so your post is obsolete. Features were streamlined in Skyrim and features were added. I would agree that some features were simplified to an extent that detracted from the game, but I do not think the game is degenerate by any stretch of the imagination.

I just realized, what does this have to do with Skyrim? Every game since Daggerfall has been called dumbed down, there isn't anything unique about Skyrim being called dumbed down (which it totally is).

I'm sure most objections to the word "dumbing down" comes from the audience that it is directed to;

In ways they feel offended from the insinuating the capacity of their mental focus; or lack thereof.

I'm certain they would prefer a word more advantageous to their position;
something newspeak like - "funadding"?

There's so much funadding in skyrim that makes it totally awesome!

Because OP is a-bloo-bloo-blooing.

I'll just attack your most specific point. Bethesda thought they were making a more attractive and efficient menu system. They would have no reason to make their menus stupid. They did not just "dumb down" the system, they changed it, and I don't mind it at all. The only issue I ever have is accidentally opening the main menu instead of my journal occasionally. I have no idea what you said in your first sentence.

It wasn't that long ago that the anti-white brigade wanted to abolish the term "political correctness". Yes, the term "political correctness" would become "un-PC", rather amusingly.

In a similar way, It's highly likely that Bethesda will encourage it's moderators to crackdown on people using the term "dumbed down", and in the same draconian fashion. The problem however isn't the statement itself, but any criticism that clashes with the ideals of the powers that be.

You don't have a journal. You have a quest log.

We'll just call it "streamlining" it's the same no?