True, the Nord is suspicious at best, but the Elf is worthy of such ideas. Such arrogance amongst the Altmer. Such pitifulness amongst the Bosmer. Such brutalness amongst the Orc kind. Such... Well, the Dunmer have a unique word that must be used. [censored].

I thought you were going for the tea baggers.

Ehhh . . .Japan never executed thousands of people on the basis of eugenics, so I'm having a difficult time drawing that comparison. If you're going to draw a parallel based on eugenics, the Nazis would be much more appropriate, although, again, the differences are too numerous and outweigh the similarities.

Also, the Thalmor are allies of the Khajiit and Bosmer, no? Not very xenophobic.


The Thalmor are trying to create a pure bloodline, just like Hitler tried. It's called eugenics, and it will always be "creating" a "new race," because they HAVE to start off as whatever they are . . .lol. The Thalmor claim they are superior because they believe they have bred/slain out their impurities- which is why normal Altmer are still treated little better than the rest of the races.

So yes, as much as any other barely-logical comparison between Tamrielic and RL cultures "works," so does this one. Both are splinter factions of their original cultures, both attempt world conquest through horrible violence and oppression, and both are "appeased" by other cultures in their respective worlds at one point or another in their campaigns. And, of course, they both practice the previously mentioned eugenics via massacres, not sterilization.

The Thalmor don't think they're superior because of breeding. They think they're the direct descendants of Akatosh/Auri-El (rather than just creations). That they were originally divine beings. Then the god Lorkhan tricked the other divines into helping creating the mortal plane (i.e. humans), which upset the entire order of things. Some of these beings dwindled - Some Altmer believe they were one of those groups. Over time, they've lost the "divine spark" and become mortal, losing lifespan, etc.. The only special breeding going on is that which tries to preserve what they think they originally were. But it's not enough. The Thalmor think they have to undo Lorkhan's work to fully restore their place. They do not merely want to dominate mortal races. It's not about politics. They want to destroy the entire mortal plane and go back to being divine/immortal beings.

There's really no comparison with their mentality among human civilizations.

everything is obviously completely converted, stretched and re-arranged through imagination and fantasy but...

Nords = Norse / Baltic as primary influence (say no more. obvious statement)
Breton = Breton ( Breton is a branch of Celts from southern Britain and across into western France)
Imperial = Roman but also some minor Greek influences. also later British Empire (East Empire Company)
Redguard = Sahara North Africa (civilisations centred around a large desert)

Dunmer = central and east Asian
Orsmer = the Huns (described as terrifyingly ugly & stocky warrior tribes)
Khajiit = Indian (names sound very Indian. jungle & desert)

I think the above are relatively obvious

Akaviri show heavy signs of being oriental (blade temples and armour)

Maormer = Maori

J'rahzir thinks one forgets the arrogant Altmer, the slimy Argonian, and the pathetic Bosmer.

Some races were obviously influenced by real life cultures. Some are mixed up, almost purely stereotypical or only influenced a tiny bit, but the influence is obviously there.

Nords: Norse
Imperials: Romans
Redguards: Moors
Khajiits: Gypsies

Khajiit will tell One's fortune should he provide much coin. *sly smile*

((No, the Khajiit aren't Romani (gypsies). There are more Middle-Eastern in my eyes. Someone said Indian, and I could see the Khajiit better as Maratha or Sihk.))

I hope a possible future Elder Scrolls set i Summerset Isle continues Morrowind's tradition of having the provinces of the Mer be completely imaginative and not based on a real human culture. It's cool that the provinces of men look like something we know, but... the Altmer are ELVES. It has to be something fantastical.

If they were trying to make Orcs like Huns, it was terrible. First off, Huns are peoples whose cultures are heavily influenced by equestrianism. Orsimer are pure foot warriors and show no evidence of this. Also, while the Orsimer tower above other races, Huns were described as relatively short and muscular. Finally, the Orsimer in TES always come off as a race preferring to use heavy armor and weapons (possibly due to their size) whereas Huns, preferred to use bows, and lighter armor (easier on the horse). BTW, the whole idea of Huns being ugly comes from (and I first heard this most excellent term from someone here on the forums) the demented Hollywood kaleidoscope. They weren't uglier nor prettier than anybody else, though Europeans might have thought them "ugly" since they had bonier, more Asiatic faces (thanks to science, we are able to know approximately what ancient Magyars looked like by studying their skulls and it's likely Huns looked similar). Here's a picture of one such reconstruction; http://www.regioijasz.hu/content/1281695470FNKTN/kurultaj_117.jpg

Well, maybe some crazy Hollywood Feudal Japan but it's nothing close to real "Feudal" Japan.
Close, though, since I would call the Dominion a TES equivalent of Imperial Japan at the height of its power in the first half of the 20th century.

The foreign politics, for example, are identical. The Dominion, like Japan, is a small but rich and stable island nation that exploits larger nations through controlling a set of puppet nations, maintaining a false facade of "alliance" when in turn these "allies" are just waiting to be annexed and colonized by their masters.
Racial policies are also identical. Both Thalmor and Imperial Japan consiered their race superior to others, and a large part of their propaganda was insisting that they are just trying to unite Asians/Elves against a foreign invader and in theory all Asians/Elves were equal, but this was of course not the case.
Both aspire to world domination. For Japan look up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakkō_ichiu and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_East_Asia_Co-Prosperity_Sphere.
Goal of long-term extermination of inferior races and replacement with the favored one. For Japan, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Investigation_of_Global_Policy_with_the_Yamato_Race_as_Nucleus.
Hypocrisy is a big part in both nations' propaganda. For Imperial Japan the hypocrisy was something on the level of North Korea. Nothing was ever admitted and everything was made out to seem better than it was, no matter how obvious was it is (like war in China dismissed as a mere "incident" in China)
Thalmor Justiciars = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kempeitai.

The Aldmeri Dominion are obviously Marxists.

The lines are not direct. But, there is a lot of real world history, and fabricated lore of certain regions used in the regional mash up in TES.

Nords are Norse, the word isnt even that clever of a one- off. Real world stuff like cold climates, hardy boistrous folk, etc are taken and combined with some of our favorite norse lore and even some hollywood imagination to create skyrim and nords. certain ideas are held more to the front in TES lore then others to make them their own.

Imperials are not romans. However, a lot of roman and greek cultural things and ideas were used here, like the arena in Oblivion, the legion armor(looks more and more the part as the series goes on) the names, and i think the overall way the empire governs the regions fit the idea. Those ideas were in, while other stuff like togas and sandals and vomitoriums and other stuff that was too off base of the lore and too far off surrounding regions ideas to fit were out. I find the empire to have the softest, most generalized culture and background because, well for one they werent really a "race" until morrowind(at least not in depth) and also because they are the melting pot to a point of tamriel. They have absorbed so many bits of other cultrures and have to respect the others to govern them that they dont have that much self identity. the abosorption itself may be considered part of the identity I suppose.

bretons are brittains. Again, not really a very clever one off word. To be fair, the culture is also combined with some french background too. Go play daggerfall. Everyone speaks in ye olde english for the most part. peoples names are french a lot of times. People of import are coalled "lord" and "king" and the like. Now a lot of other stuff was added to them, like magicka bonuses and whatnot to fit in TES regional lore. Not too hard a stretch what with king arthur and merlin, and after all they needed a magicka proficient human race, and nords certainly werent it, and imperials werent really proficient at anything lol. Talking I guess. Maybe like the roman democratic senate or some such. Anyway, Bretons away from home in the newer series titles have lost some of their background it seems, or at least it isnt as obvious when you are on vardenfell getting called N'wah and not surrounded by a bunch of ye olde Mathiuex's

Redgards, the token black race lol. Well not really I guess, though maybe they started that way out of some fledgling political correctness or something. Still it was probably very easy to take them and add some northern africa/egypt culture points. their homeland is a lot of sand, and a few crazy fertile areas(like the nile) along the bay. Curved swords(scimitar) warriors that tap into a type of magic other cultures dont understand from gods other cultures dont understand(sword singers, egyptian gods and related mysticism). Then we add some TES regianl lore to make them fit into the games, and as time goes by we add more and more background history to the region.

Thats all the humans really in TES. Akavir is full of beast races and "snake skinned" katana wielders that we only have a minor amount of lore on. I agree with others that Akavir is supposed to be Asia, you have katana japanese and tiger style, dragon style, monkey style, martial artists(my own take on where the beast races idea came from) on an island far away to the east.

As for beast races, the Cat people are taken from other places, ideas mashed together and as time moves forward A LOT of background has been added to make Khajiit into a TES creation. the idea of dessert roaming cat warriors is certainly not a TES creation, but how the Khajiit and their homeland fit into Tamriel certainly is. Just look at how they have been represented as the series moves forward(lol daggerfall is the most obvious) to see just how far their culture has been expanded. In most recent releases, I have found khajiit to be sly, perhaps a tad sneaky at times, but also noble and true friends that always have a polite word and an earnest smile to greet me. Some of this culture is snagged from Arabic, but certainly the appearence and other attributes of the race are not drawn from anything but various fantasy works.

Lizard man is another fantasy race, snagged and renamed and built up heavily over the last 15 years. of all races, i think Argonians are the most original TES race, most of their lore has been created piecemiel over the series by Bethesda. I prefer the version in Oblivion the most so far, as moth I encountered were light hearted and had a different take on the world then the other races, more laid back, and more blunt(in an honest way) about the world. I dont really see any kind of real world culture points they drew from, though I have never been a bg fan of "lizard man" as something I could relate with so I havent studied them that much.


And then the OP, the Mer.
Dark elves..... well nobody I know on earth has grey skin and red eyes so....yeah. Pretty much IMO dark elves were picked up straight out of Faerun and the underdark and transplanted into their own location. Just as the underdark is foreign and odd, so we have vardenfell with mushroom trees and wierd creatures. Slavery I think was a culture point that came along for the ride too. I credit Bethesda with fleshing out the rest of the story on vardenfell. The ashlanders and "tribal" stuff feels familiar somehow toreal world, but that may just be because the idea has been used so much in other media that it feels that way.

Bosmer are the traditional lives in trees and shoots bows elves. Shorter and slight of build compared to humans, with pointy ears and eyes to go along with the traditional lore regarding elves. I dont know much about their government or culture aside from what I read in "A dance in fire" about the leader being linked to his people and the like, but even that was all pretty high fantasy stuff. Maybe someone else knows more here to point out real world culture points, but I dont really see any. I think wood elves are just that- elves because they needed elves in their fantasy RPG. Bethesda seems to have split the archery/ranger/hunter short agile elf and stately magic-wise elf that is considered the same race in Faerun. See below.

Orcs are orcs. in the begining they werent even playable race, they were..... orcs. Normal orc background, green with big tusk teeth, chieftans and "witch doctor" magic users. Basic, crude culture that stuck with traditional lore in Daggerfall, but then took a major step forward in Morrowind and got a very fleshed out backstory and culture by the time we hit Skyrim. Another fantasy race to fill a need for fantasy races, although as time went on they became a lot more then that. I think down the road Bosmer will see somthing like this happen to them also.

As for Altmer, they got the leftover part of "elves" the part not given to wood elves. the "noble"( as in upper crust caste) wise, well spoken, powerful magic wielding parts. very elegent long faces and ears, "golden" complexion, ultra high fantasy homeland with shiny magic towers and highly ornate architecture, ornate to the point of "doesnt resemble any utility" architecture(carried over to their armor style and weopon style). This "fancy shmancy" culture of course carries with it the fancy shmancy nose in the air attitude. The rest of thier history and whatnot has been filled in as needed to make the game regions and cultures diverse and create the tension required to generate wars and other historic events. The concepts of genocides and infanticides and other points of culture are possibly drawn in tiny bits from various real world events, but not from any one place as the mish mash of culture we see is purposely put in place for the very reason of defining their unique culture.


In short, human races are drawn a lot from a mish mash of real world culture and events/regions. beast races and Mer are drawn from fictional, high fantasy media and have bits and peices of various real world cultures or events written in for the purpose of making them more filled out with a minor side effect of making them a bit more relateable and interesting.

Thats my take anyway on Bethesda's development process over the years on the races.

((I can't but help try to place the races in Rome: Total War civilizations now. Thanks a lot, OP (and RTS addictions)))

Eh... no, they took over Valenwood and Elseweyer, Bosmer are Merfolk so there fore are allowed to exist but I don't think they really "appreciate" Khajiit. It's like saying they are also allied with the Redguard since they took over Hammerfell. Not true at all.

Actually, during WWII they did. Incidents like the Nanking Massacre make WWII Imperial Japan a much more "genocidal" state than the Dominion has ever been. Also, I was never aware the Thalmor executed thousands of people, I'd say even hundreds was a bit of an overestimation.

10 short reasons not a single real world culture is very similar to any of the races in tes.
-well ignoring magic and the fact that gods are real and interact with the world.
1) Dunmer- Domesticated giant living bugs and worshiped 3 real living god kings. Heavily spiritual oppressive Religion that endorsed Slavery and Xenophobic tendencies. Lived with a highly advanced society of which they warred with and had a powerful God's heart residing in the middle of their Nation while they lived through Blightstorms carrying Divine diseases.

2) Orsimer- Cursed race of once great people that changed into bestial versions of their former selves when their god got digested by what is essentially a Demon Lord(Daedra).

3) Altmer- Heavily magic based civilization. I know I said ignore magic but for these guys you just can't. Also Isolated Island Empire that has spread its culture throughout an entire continent and almost all writing is based on their own.

4) Khajiit- Cat people that are born into different shapes according to the phases of the moon.

5) Argonians- Lizard people that are genetically modified by the sap of certain sentient trees that they worship. Can breath water.

6) Bosmer- Short elven people with a pact with a divine being to not harm any of the trees in their giant forested homeland who need to eat anything they kill and can permanently turn themselves into horrible out of control monsters if threatened that usually have a singular goal.

7) Imperials- A culture that has constantly waxed and waned throughout the years conquering all those around them and falling into disrepair who were once enslaved by evil elven overlords. The are also a culture whom were once ruled by an alien vampiric snake people in replacement of their emperors and they have had several Legendary figures found their empires with one of them literally becoming a God. They also have a catalog of divine prophecies with every event that ever has happened and will happen.

8) Nords- A dragon worshiping culture that embalms its dead into zombies who become caretakers and protectors of those tombs. They also lived with Dragons and were oppressed by them until the rose up and warred with them through a powerful shouting magic.

9) Bretons- A society obsessed with questing and is very splintered into various factions and diverse peoples. They are the descendents of two incredibly different and alien cultures and peoples. They are a mildly religious, highly intelligent, and mercantile people. They also have highly developed espionage forces that are used to great effect in any of their wars. Did I mention they are half elven?

10) Redguards- They are a people who left their last continent because they pretty much destroyed it with powerful sword magics. They are roughly split in two major political groups. For ease of understanding I will just say the Royals and the Warriors. Once group is the traditional royalty from Yokuda while the other is the warrior wave that conquered and carved the way for the rest of their people in the 1st Era. They are a maritime warrior civilization that is different from everyone else in the continent with major cultural and relgious differences. They also have a history of warriors that can summon spirits swords and are very powerful. Though that knowledge died out.

This was very barebones and I missed a lot of unique things but there it is. I challenge you to find civilizations that match the ones above.

...

Obviously since its a high fantasy world if you do that there isn't a way to compare to real world civilizations ro cultures. But there are similarites or conclusion oen could draw. I could even draw a figuritive conclusion that relates toa real world culture about the heart of a god. Like [censored] seriously

Actually WW2 Japan killed more people than the Nazi's did. They would kill and [censored] almost everyone not Japanese that they came across. Many Japanese did not like this at all but due to Imperial Japans demonization and dehumanization of most everyone not Japanese there were unfortunately more people in command that were basically the worst kinds of human beings. Tens of millions of people were exterminated by them throughout the Pacific Islands and Chine. You just do not learn about it because we are very chummy with Japan after we rebuilt their country after basically dismantling it. One thing the US is good at is Nation building and brushing the things they do not like their citizens knowing to the wayside.

If you go to about any pacific Island that was occupied by Japan in WW2 you will see a deep hatred of Japan and for some reason a deep respect and love of Americans. Samoa is a good example. Strangely so is Micronesia but they do not hate Japan all that much but even though we dropped nuclear weapons on them the micronesians still like us and feel like they are part of America. Which they kind of are but only because we wanted those islands for strategic purposes. China also really dislikes Japan because of things like the Nanking massacre, though they do not really love Americans but that is a more recent rivalry related thing. My girlfriends great grandpa was actually a victim of that very event. Though luckily he ran away before being executed.

@MouseKing, That is the point. Nearly every comparison you make to one real world culture can apply to several others. There was a lot of thought put into the design and culture of these races. Saying they are just like X culture or civilization is underselling them viciously.

Actually Normans are both Germanic and Scandinavian as they were Vikings that mixed with Franks and were converted to French culture. I apologize if my nitpicking is annoying, however.

I was aware the Soviets killed more people than the Nazis but I did not know that Japan did as well. Also, the atrocities committed by the Japanese are much more sadistic in nature. I believe that the reason America was so eager to help Japan become an advanced and powerful country was to sow the seeds of "democracy" which basically meant they were scared as hell that China would make Japan a communist country.

Pretty much not to mention we already had some history there. We kind of sowed the seeds that blossomed into Imperial Japan when we introduced them to more modern technologies. Yup it was good ole Amurica. Not that we are to blame for it but we do share some responsibility for that mess.

Pretty sure it came from the http://historiaaugustumblr.tumblr.com/post/16916930448/ammianus-marcellinus-describes-the-huns-the-only.

The argument for the Thalmor as imperial Japan is a good one. I could buy it. Still think there's no real equivalent, though.

Who of course are very biased. But that is most certainly where we get most of what we know about them in terms of appearance.