Lol who cares what they do .. everyone is entitled to enjoy games their own way ..

Let them complain .. and you can continue to enjoy the game .. pretty cut and dry if you ask me ..

I prefer this one http://skyrimcalculator.com/. No, it does not bother me, I've used it plenty of times while bored and unable to play to see what kind of builds I would want to make.

Completely agree, but have you seen the amount of stupid threads here about how people have powerleveled something and now thinks the game is boring?

This is exactly my point. They made their bed, they should either lay in it, or get a new bed (start a new game)

It's sad that according to some gamers, WoW is the measuring stick in which all other games are evaluated. It's also sad that WoW has generated some of the most vile and reprehensible people that the virtual world has ever seen.

Min/Maxing and DPS parsing used to be a side hobby for those who wanted to do their personal best... now it's become the standard at which games and their players are measured to determine their worth. Nowdays, if you're 0.2 DPS off someone's benchmark of what they think you should be doing, you're considered a Scrub. This is not my cup of tea. Thank Christ that the MMO's that I've played hasn't subjected me to this type of insane amount elitism... all I hear from my ex-WoW friends is that this behavior has become the norm.

WoW cannot take full blame for the state of MMO (and in some cases, single-player) communities. For example, Counter Strike can take some of the credit for the bad apples. And I think that the ill-effects of such a terrible player base will be felt long after WoW has been thrown into the trash heap of history. Until then, people are going to have this type of mentality and inject it to any RPG game that can apply it.

By 'people like that' you mean most everyone born after 1985?

They will eventually get bored with the game and leave, to find something that does a better job of stroking their ego. TES isn't competitive enough for them.

Yet another thread in which TES fans display their massive superiority complex.

"enjoy" and "min maxing" are usually two seperate things in TES. When they get bored because they used the enchanting exploit with alchemy, they complain its too easy and want everything nerfed for us who don't use exploits. I use enchanting properly.

It is a TES board, afterall. Let WoW display their feathers and puff out their chest on their own forum.

I don't see the issue with wanting to plan your character out. I do it in the later editions of D&D, WoW and Skyrim.

lol. Comparing WoW to elder scrolls. Kids are so cute these days

Well said...I am still on WoW as well as Skyrim, mainly because I still enjoy the battlegrounds on WoW. The dungeons, though, are so full of [censored]ing and whining that it's no fun at all. At least they have a well named site to visit: elitistjerks.com . On the other hand, TES lets a player do his/her own thing without some a/hole sitting in judgement with a damage meter.

I feel MMO has corrupted gaming by encouraging this mindset.

Calling characters "toons" This isn't Bugs Bunny.

Min-maxing certainly doesn't translate well into the TES series but there has always been a group of players that have used the concept to build optimal characters. The community needs to self balance and not allow any one group to dominate. Easier said than done.

Again, how someone wants to enjoy this game is subjective. Coming from a thread demonizing WoW, is it so hard to believe someone would want to avoid some of the most "vile and reprehensible people" (WoW players) while still wanting to make the best possible character they can in a game where exploits and "god mode" are a large part of he appeal for them? Skyrim doesn't get a new patch every month like WoW to make sure everyone is having an equal game experience, maybe that's why it's fun for them to break some of the mechanics in a game where no one else has to suffer for it, except for the people who are playing the game "right" and feel the need to complain on a forum about how everyone else is enjoying something they paid for the wrong way.

Who are you to pass judgment on what is the right or wrong way to play a game? If someone enjoys min/maxing outside of WoW, let them?

I'm a veteran exWoW player with over a year gametime played, I've raided in US top 20 guilds before. I know all about minmaxing. I don't do it in Skyrim, although old habits die hard. I find myself in my skill menus just looking and calculating lol.

But if they enjoy it, get bent and learn what a personal opinion is. Gaming is purely subjective in terms of enjoyment.

I don't mind people playing a single person game however they want to, I just don't want to hear about it. It's hard to forget people doing what I think of as idiotic things are out there when they keep making or adding to threads!

Really, what's with all the "how can I ...?" threads nowadays? I can understand wanting a little help (that's why there's a hints / spoilers section!), but it's really sad to see so many people asking things they can find out by simply playing the game. I guess I just don't get it ... why anyone would ask "Can this type of character work?" or "Can I play a mage who wields a battle axe and concentrates on ?" Jeeze, people, just try it out and see if it works! It's not like you're gonna lose anything if it doesn't work!

Maybe a lot of people are just too afraid to try things.

Me: Hey guys there will be a new TES, Skyrim!

friend 1:WuT? iS LiKe a NeW WoW ?

Me: No... it's a single player rpg, sand box type, where you can tell your own character history, like when we played D&D!

friend 2: aaaa No OnLine!? mE dOn'T lIkE dAt

me: Don't need online there to be fun...

friend 1: bUt tHeRe aRe fLyInG mOuNtS???

friend 2: nO BG's?? nO aReNaS???

*friend 1 and 2 start talking abour the last raid and arena for eternity*

me:



yep, everytime I introduce my friends to new games, they always make comparison with WoW like in my example above. I was a player WoW since 2004, but cancel my account a year ago, cause I was really bored about doing the same end game. More so, the community there was turning so unpleasant over the years. So I left WoW and my real life friends got their souls trapped there.
Nowadays gamers prefer "quick" games, where they can achieve quick rewarding, where take action is above thinking. Society has to do much in that, it's called inmediatism.


I'm of 1986 and enjoy TES over WoW all days of the week.

Selectable skills that upgrade your character in one way or another? sounds similar.

That's not the only WoW (or other MMO) mindset showing up on the forums. Comb the threads and you'll find plenty more.

Some people can't understand the difference between single player and multi-player games and want everything to be the same.

But yes, it's annoying.

Not to mention what was included in the game that has an MMO flavor.

Uldred

I presented this exact question to the Min/Maxing and DPS meter players in the last MMO I played (Rift). I saw what was happening and then I simply un-subbed.

You're right, using these tools is fine and dandy in an offline game.... notice I said "offline". However, these tools are being used to pass judgement on others in regards to how they play (and enjoy) a game. And I've been offline for almost a year now because of it.

I've noticed this many times here at these forums. Where the hell did this come from? Honestly, I've never heard anybody use the term to describe a character before.