Going off on our previous conversation, I don't at all mind the thought of a strong Elven alliance. Even a strong Elven nation seperate from the Empire would be suitable.

It's everything else about the Thalmor that must be reckoned with. Their arrogant and callous methods aside, they have offended and persecuted the faithful servants of Talos (who was PROVEN to be a God), and for that, they will certainly be brought to justice for it.

And divine justice from a god is quite a terrifying prospect.

Because 1: they are in a hostile land, and 2: because they do not have the military power to challenge all the human nations at the moment. The Great War left its mark on them too. The destruction of the huamn race is their long-term goal.

I like watching them attempt to run away only to get a knife in the back or watching them turn into a sweetroll laugh and then eat it.

Uhm... have you even heard of any of the atrocities they've committed? Go talk to Legate Fasendil in the Rift. Or better yet, read the "Rising Threat" book series.

They. Are. Nazi. Elves.

I should stop reading these lore threads. The more I learn about the lore world, as opposed to the game world, the less satisfying Skyrim is. Not only do they not SHOW any of this in the game (they TELL you about it in a few lines in some book, right?), but this is also a totally unrealistic situation.

If the High Elves are actively trying to kill everyone, they wouldn't be spreading themselves so thin. They'd be attacking region by region, doing a slow sleep through all of Tamriel.

Wow, this has totally put me off playing Skyrim.

They did. They pulled off a coup in Valenwood. They wowed Eleswyr by "making" the moons reappear after they disappeared (they're big on the moon there). They convinced the Argonians of Blackmarsh to secede and attack Morrowind after their Red Mountain disaster, decimating Morrowind. They managed to execute every single Blades agent operating in their territory. After the great war, they managed to badger the Empire into alienating Hammerfell. And now in Skyrim, their "asset" Ulfric Stormcloak is attempting to secede Skyrim as well. He may not be "responsive" to the Thalmor, but he's still doing exactly what they want him to do: weaken the empire of Men. Even after getting hammered even worse by the war than the Empire, they still turned it around in their favor. They're insidious.

However, they aren't counting on the Dragonborn, the proverbial wrench in their works, the balance-tipper in the scales of the Skyrim civil war. Regardless of the side that wins the Civil War, things are a bit dicey for the Thalmor. If the Stormcloaks win, the Thalmor now has to contend with a new nation now openly hostile to them and free to worship Talos to their hearts' desire. If the Empire wins, the Empire can return to recuperating strength to go at the Thalmor again, this time wise to their wiles... and could probably rouse even the former Stormcloaks to the cause if they promise open worship of Talos again.

And if lore is too much for you, then perhaps nuanced RPGs aren't the genre for you.

Point is, in all these places they've entrenched themselves, they haven't been doing much killing, apart from that needed to take control, have they? So either they DON'T mean to kill everyone else, or they're really dumb villains.

If they hate the khajiit so much, why is Elswheyr's people still alive and well? The argonians? You don't let people who could turn on you at any second be if you're a smart strategist.

So. Dumb.


No need for veiled ad hominems. We can discuss the validity of TES lore and games without attacking each other.

Hells no, but I need them to think that I do...

I like them characteristically...but I don't think anyone could like them as Dragonborn. Makes little sense.

Also :
' "A single Wheel? More like a Telescope that stretches all the way back to the Eye of the Anui-El, with Padomaics innumerable along its infinite walls. '
The Thalmor aren't fighting a real world, swords and flames campaign to kill all humans, they are trying to prevent the possibility of Lorkhan creating any other world, in any other Kalpa. The Dwemer tried to escape creation, the Thalmor want the entire universe to be rearranged so the creation of Nirn, or any other world based on Padomaic death/birth/impermanency principles isn't even an option.

They are really good sources of armor, LOL each patrol wears either glass or elven armor. sell em for good bucks.
wish i could meet them all the time though can't find enough to kill

Because they still serve a purpose. And starting to wholesale slaughter people tends to make them rise up. And as Zen stated, they're not waging a war of swords and destruction magic. They're waging a war on a mythopoeic level.


Not if you casually dismiss the validity by calling it "dumb" because you don't want to read.

Here's a thought : the Thalmor may be their own worst enemies. What if they achieve their aims? What if they destroy the world and the cycle of Alduin destroying and it being remade? They return to the state of Et'Ada, their mundane existences confined by flesh and blood and Earthbones escaped and transformed into all-possibilities godhead multi acid trip existences. Then the Kalpa turns.

No Shor and his world design/engine to shield them. No Tall Papa to guide them through the time between. They could destroy themselves utterly. The Dwemer effectively destroyed themselves by seeking the stillness before creation. Not much point existing at all if you never change. The Altmer could destroy themselves by reaching a state of almost infinite possibilities which then ends, with no chance of existing forever. And they think having to pass through the Dreamsleeve is bad?

I think it and its creators can withstand my attacking it with accusations of 'dumb'. There's no need to get riled up about a game. My disliking something isn't my disliking people who like it. There's no reason to interpret it as an attack on you.

I can see there's no point in discussing this further so ... /discussion.

Anyway, OP: I would have liked the Thalmor more, except apparently they aren't even portrayed properly in-game.

A line I read in a BattleTech novel (Blood of Kerensky series IIRC)... "The dreams of the mad are the nightmares of the sane".

it seems that even the gods are a bit alarmed at the Thalmor's plans... I imagine that a Dragonborn would have been sent to the Mundus regardless of Alduin's menace since the gods wouldn't be too keen on being uncreated either.

I've wondered the same sort of thing myself. And one thing that is not explained by the lore is how do the Thalmor know even if they succeed in ending the mortal world, that they would have any power or control as spirit forms? It wasn't them who created the Mundus, so why do they think they can prevent a new creation or can control whether or not they stay as immortal, perfect beings? According to the lore, didn't time technically not exist at the beginning? So how can they prevent it from ending forever?

Because their supreme hubris blinds them to thinking things through?

For all their insidious calculating nature in peeling the Empire apart, their greatest flaw is still their pride.

As Altmer are my favorite race, the Thalmor are my favorite faction. A powerful group of agents whose sole joy in life is to restore Tamriel under Elven control, they are essentially "Elven Stormcloaks". If you happen to be someone of their favored group expect to have a good life under a stable government. They don't even treat humans badly, even if they consider themselves superior - as long as you obey their laws they leave you alone. While their egoism is annoying it's rather justified - the small people of the Summerset Isles handed the ass of the Empire itself to them on a silver plate, and the Altmer in general are the purest of the Elves and by far the best mages.

Whatever humans have to offer for elves, the Thalmor has plus tenfold.


God Bless the Enclave
Gods Bless the Thalmor.
Two peoples, one struggle.

Ehrm... did you read the earlier post linking to MK's stuff?

They mean to erase the races of Men from existence on a mythopoeic level by erasing Talos. Heck, they mean to erase existence itself by erasing Talos.

They are not benevolent totalitarians by any stretch of the imagination. They're essentially a threat to all on the Mundus. Man, Elf, Beastman... any who don't buy into their utterly mad and omnicidal plan of returning to pre-creation "divinity" (IE: nothingness).

So unless, in universe, you are keen on being uncreated, the Thalmor are your enemy. They're even worse than the Enclave. At least they just wanted to wipe the slate clean for themselves; the Thalmor want to destroy the slate too.

Imagine that the Enclave suddenly wanted to destroy Earth the same way Vulcan was destroyed in the Star Trek 2009 movie. Nothing left, including themselves. That's an anology of what the Thalmor aim to do.

Wait, what? The Thalmor plan to undo the world by exterminating the human races, not restore ellven leadership of Tamriel. Taking control of Tamriel is only a means to an end-

i am clearly not as far in the game or as well versed in the lore as the bulk of you.
im about 60 hours in, altmer, and i wish i could join the aldmeri dominion. they are a huge factor in everything tamriel and its a tiny bit upsetting i cant lend my hand. in fact im pretty sure that i will not do the civil war quest line in this playthrough specifically for that reason. i mean... maybe i want to be the bad guy (so to speak).
ive never played altmer ever, but now that i am, i want to embrace the haughtiness. its too bad i cant. i feel like im missing the whole point of playing this race....

and to those of you claiming the thalmor are nazi and should be hated... what who hated the nazis? i get they didnt finish the job but thats no reason to hate em'. {jk}

There are quite a few high elves about the land of Skyrim that are full of themselves in the classic high elven manner. Guess what? The vast majority of them hate the Thalmor too.

Comparing the Thalmor, or the Enclave, to Nazis is a very certain way of proving that one has absolutely no idea what he is talking about...

So are many Nords full of themselves, they are just slightly more quiet about it.
And likewise there are Altmer who are not stuck up [censored], those two women in Winterhold for one. Even some of the Thalmor agents are very polite no matter who you are.

Not seeing the similarities are another...

Godwin's Law only applies when the anology is ill-fitted and done in the heat of the moment... which is not the case with either the Thalmor or the Enclave. They're both pretty clear cut anologs.