Your forgetting all the dialog that would have to be added to the game to support a situation where NPCs no longer recognize the PC. I hardly call that a lame decision.

In Fallout 3, there was an NPC that got plastic surgery, so it was in the game. There were surgical instruments and doctors all over the game so one would expect to be able have this done. Cybernetic Implants were offered, Adamantium Skeletons were offered. It is not a leap to offer plastic surgery in Fallout.

Where has any surgery ever been mentioned in any TES game? Where are the surgical item clutter in TES games? What NPC is a surgeon in TES games? We might as well introduce guns and stimpacks and hypodermic needles/pills rather than potion bottles just because it was in Fallout 3.

Different games, different worlds, different technologies, different rules.

Forget roleplaying. Some people just want to start playing without worrying that they will be stuck with a character whose appearance they hate if they don't spend a lot of time in the beginning fussing with it. Make the race / gender non-changeable and let people play with their appearance whenever they like.

This. It would be nice to change hairstyles and warpaint.

This.

Finally a useful reason to get married. This would double the usefulness of marriage in an instant.

This.

Yeah, I've gotta agree, it could've been really, really easy to implement a means to change your hair style, facial hair, and add/remove warpaint. Changing scars wouldn't make sense, but adding them would've been cool. Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas both had means by which to alter your appearance. It's not something in the realm of impossibility or difficulty. I think it was just overlooked.

*sigh* I really think you're not understanding me...

I said that if they had to do an ingame explanation than they could use magic (illusion or restoration) as an excuse to let you change your looks. Just like surgery was just an excuse in Falout 3.

Why do I say excuse? Because characters didn't recognize your changed appearance, for them you were still the same character. So surgery wasnt part of the gameplay, it was just a way to allow people who wanted to change their characters an option to do so. On this board there are also people who want to change their appearance in Skyrim, and if Bethesda has to make up an ingame excuse than they can say it is a form of illusion or restoration magic. It would be just as lame as having a plastic surgent tell you that nobody will recognize your changed appearance.

I don't care much if they use an excuse or not. If they give me access to console commands on X360 than I'll use that to change my appearance. I have enough imagination to make up my own story on how I received that new scar or how much time has past now that my character got grey hair and looks older, etc.

I never said that TES should have plastic surgery... perhaps you should re-read my previous responses to your posts?

1. wives/husbands should have cut your hair for you, double functionality that way,i dont see a barbers in skyrim.
2. same as above but face paint.
3. tattoes. some were should do tats that are perminent.
4. wen you look into water in fallout it says 'drink' in skyrim it shpuld say 'refreash, it should clean off the dirt on your face and give u a little well rested bonus. Dirt would come back after dungeon driving/fighting ect.

Ah...the Black Emporium from DA2. My characters visited that place quite often.

I wouldn't mind the option to also re-spec my character, but that's for another topic.

As it is, I'm almost always looking at my Nord from behind, and he usually has his face covered with a helmet. If I was to spend countless hours trying to make him look "perfect", I'd rarely see his face, so "good enough" is fine for me. If I saw my character's face in cut scenes and the like (without helmet), then their appearance might be more of a priority for me.

After having so many ugly characters I made my girl way too pretty. She just doesn't look real and she sure as hell doesn't look like she lives in Skyrim. She looks like Christina Applegate, actually.

Someone posted a while back about going into the face gen, picking the same pre-set but changing the face, exiting without saving and his character has the new face now.... at least I think that's what they did.... too scared to try it without knowing for sure.

I can understand that you want to change the look of your character. Magic Mirror is how you want to make this work. Look in the mirror and Poof, new face. Every character I make looks different. Even though I never really see the character's face when I play the game, I can spend an hour making a face in the beginning.

I am arguing why it won't work in this game and why it made sense in the other game to offer a face change on an existing character.

I just wish they had the extra chance to edit your character before you leave the cave like you could in Oblivion before leaving the dungeon...

Agree. Especially when you have two warriors (my orc and Lydia) with big 2H swords, in dragon armor, walking along the road, and some thief wearing sneakers, shorts and a t-shirt comes running at me demanding money, or he'll kill us with his dagger.

I'm like, yeah, that's not likely to happen.

You're talking about a game where a guy yells real loud and literally makes the sky burst into storms. I think there's a little wiggle room in the lore to get a haircut or take a bath.

Personally? No. I've almost never wanted to make adjustments later, in OB, FO3, FO:NV.....

I agree, a barber or something. Maybe have special type of alchemist or wizard that can change your appearance?

A barber of some type definitely should have been included. I don't know why they wouldn't carry that over from FO3, it was such a simple yet great idea.

I re-read all your post, and I haven't found an argument to which I haven't responded. Your argument is that changing your face made sense in Fallout 3 because they could call it plastic surgery, but that it does not belong in TES.

I responded to this, multiple times. Perhaps it is time that you responded to my counter argument? Here it goes again:

In FO3 characters don't recognise that your face is changed. So ''plastic surgery'' was just an excuse to allow players to change their character's face. Why can't they use an excuse in TES? Call it ''healing magic'' or ''illusion magic'' it would be just as lame as saying it is plastic surgery but that nobody can tell the difference. Do you disagree with this? Do you think unrecognised plastic surgery is more acceptible than unrecognised healing/illusion magic?

Btw, I totally thought that plastic surgery was a lame excuse,and therefore I never used it in FO3. In fact I won't change my characer's facial features in Skyrim. I'd just use this ''magic'' to add a scar and a dead eye and than I'll use my imagination that I got them in an epic fight. I would also use this to change my skin texture to one that looks a little older so I can pretent my character has been living in Skyrim for years.

But lets not forget that this topic is about ANY kind of character changer. I'd welcome a barber or a mirror that lets you change just your haircut (better than nothing). In your first post you already recognised that this would be a good feature. So although we disagree about a full face changing feature, we do agree that changing hair and face paint would be a nice addition. I think most responses agree on that, and it is easy for Bethesda to implement. So....

It is the very least. From what I understand the console command menu on the PC allows you to alter any character except Khajiit. When you try to alter a Khajiit they change to the default face. So maybe there is a bug there and they didn't bother to look into it and just left out the barber feature.

like the one in Dragon age 2 .
and since we need money sink in game , you pay 1k gold every time you wanna change your look

I see this is going back and forth. Like most every topic in the forum. Personally I would welcome such a feature. I swing the camera around and admire my characters all through the game. I spend a lot of time in the creator, only to have to wade through a half hour of gameplay before I get to see the real them from all the angles. Because they never look exactly like the one I created.

I have deleted level 40 characters because I just wasn't happy with their looks. They were not just right and I let it go. Thinking I could live with it. So I just kept going, until I just couldn't do it any more. Had I had the opt to change it mid game I would have jumped on it.

What is the deal with having the option? If you don't care for changing your char, then why would you argue someone else that does? I am not opposed to having any option. Because I get to chose to implement it or not. The same way I get to choose to create a super-uber-duber or not.

*Ahem* Showracemenu *ahem*

Really Bethesda should have included some barbers and tattooers/face painters or something. Be a good quest reward to gain access to a Jarls grooming team or something of that ilk.

They should have at the very least made a point in the games intro where you get the option to stop and double check your stuff(race/looks/w/e) eg Oblivion's Sewer grate. Could have been right at the end of tha cave system too...

This. I can raise someone from the dead, freeze them with ice breath, breathe water, cause spontaneous combustion, and make a city burst into madness, but its against lore to use a spell to alter my facial skin/bone structure?

How is a potion of youth/aging different than a potion of restoration/life drain?
How is trading my soul to a deity in exchange for better looks different from making a deal with a certain deity of good fortune?
How is a witch turning me into a khajit any different than a witch turning me into a werewolf?
How is casting a spell to trick others into thinking I look like someone else different from illusion magic?
Why do I even need an excuse to change my hair, warpaint, or add scars & wrinkles?

Isnt there a school of magic called ALTERATION. "The School of Alteration involves the manipulation of the physical world and its natural properties." Don't transmute, stoneflesh, ironflesh, ebonyflesh, and dragonhide sort of establish that magic can alter the inherent physical makeup of both inanimate objects and living creatures?

This isn't even thinking outside the box. Can't you turn people into an entirely different SPECIES with an in-game item already (rhymes with applejacks)?! Saying appearance alteration would be against lore is not even trying. And why do you even care, if you're not going to use it?

It'd be a nice feature.

Either that, or give a chance to reconfigure the face at the end of Helgen, like what other Beth games do. The main character creation lighting svcks.. once you're in game, everything goes to crap. People should be able to reassess their appearance.

this, add that some outfits don't look well with all hair becaus of cliping issues.