Are women equally represented in Skyrim? : V - Skyrim

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:40 pm

Speaking as a female, I think Skyrim--and all Elder Scrolls games, for that matter--do a wonderful job of promoting gender equality. It's part of what makes me love Tamriel so much. Women can be and are just as powerful and intelligent as men. Skyrim is an interesting case, because it embodies a lot of "testosterone"-type things, like being a badass barbarian with a giant axe, doing "manly" things. But we see females doing these same things. There may be a lot of masculine pronouns and terms used, but I think it's clear through example that women are treated equally in Skyrim, such is all of Tamriel.

Unfortunately, this doesn't translate to the fans of the series, and sixism is ever-so-prevalent, even here on the forums.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:35 am

I usually play a female character and the only thing that bothers me is that my character is treated like a guy. Same with my race - I have both a Breton and a Bosmer, both of which are treated the same as any Nord. So if anything I think this game needs more sixism and racism.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with "Sons of Skyrim" and that sort of thing either. Humans are often referred to as "man" in real life and it isn't meant to degrade women at all, so the only ones offended by this are the hardcoe feminists.

But yes, women are represented very equally... too equally in fact, since they are treated exactly the same as the men.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:48 am

I usually play a female character and the only thing that bothers me is that my character is treated like a guy. Same with my race - I have both a Breton and a Bosmer, both of which are treated the same as any Nord. So if anything I think this game needs more sixism and racism.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with "Sons of Skyrim" and that sort of thing either. Humans are often referred to as "man" in real life and it isn't meant to degrade women at all, so the only ones offended by this are the hardcoe feminists.

But yes, women are represented very equally... too equally in fact, since they are treated exactly the same as the men.

Really? Ever done the Miscelaneous quest for the Food stall vendor in Whiterun? She complains about -all- the men giving her a hard time because she is an unmarried widow raising a young girl and she's hot. She especially has problems with the bard in the in who's words, and I quote "I SHALL CONQUER HER LIKE A TRUE NORD CONQUERS HIS ENEMIES! SHE'S MINE AND DOESN'T KNOW IT YET!"

There is more where that came from. Be in mind this is just from Nord Males not other races which are more in balance with each other. But my point wasn't about the sixism, it was to include women or at least Gender Neutralize the Lore and the Dragonborn song.

Once again I'm going to be overlooked.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:30 pm

Yes it is, and many of them do not realize that the original title of this topic was "I'm probably going to be flamed for this" In fact it was a moderator who changed the topic name to this and cleared out the initial batch of immature idiots male and female alike.

The argument started on Youtube because I offered a suggestion to the song as his lyrics ware "Men of the north" and "Sons of the Snow" He demanded that I rewrite it so it sounds better when I simply told him why can't he include both genders or make it gender neutral ((not to mention he incorrectly states Tamriel as having 1 moon and not 2)). My orginal was "Sons and Daughters" or "Daughters and Sons" but then speaking it to myself I have felt that "Children of the North" and "Children of Snow" would be much better suited as it gender neutralizes and includes women equally.

As one has said on page 2 the FIRST DRAGONBORN WAS ST. ALLESIA SEPTIM. It wasn't Tiber Septim conquerer of all the lands. So why on the dragonwall is it written just for man? In the song if you listen to it it says "HIS" Man encompasses both women and men of human cultures. It does not include Mer or Beast races.

I offered my input and a suggestion, was promptly ignored and flamed.

I knew I would be flamed and I knew it would be from mostly immature selfish boys.

I didn't expect it to reach 5 pages in less than 12 hours, it's making it hard to reply to comments such as yours because I have to sift though this mess which is more than likely composed of many PRO MIRACLEOFSOUND supporters. He is not the miracle of sound. He can do better. But he won't listen to critiques or suggestions. However I will not be supporting him and he has no right to sing next to the Goddess Malukah.

In this opening post I simply asked "Why is there no mention of wife, queen, woman" in the dragon language and why is the dragonborn song just about men? It does not have "MAN" in there to encompass all of humankind and comes off as very pro nord true, but also pro man.

But I'm labled as a sixist, a troll, a betch, just for posting this point.

While alot of these posts have been harsh and immature etc. (hope mine aren't included)

Generally people are trying to say that we actually think Skyrim has represented women equally and anywhere that it could be construed as they haven't has been entirely unintentional.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:16 am

While alot of these posts have been harsh and immature etc. (hope mine aren't included) :tongue:

Generally people are trying to say that we actually think Skyrim has represented women equally and anywhere that it could be construed as they haven't has been entirely unintentional.

Really, then please explain some of the posts on I believe either page 4 or 5: "Unokitsune you have brought this on yourself for saying what you said about such a great man and his ever awesome song. Sons include women tooo it's about everybody you're just a betch, a heartless sixist betch"

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:45 am

The game portrays an unrealistic absence of gender roles in a pre-industrial society, to be frank about it. In a world where physical strength is important in warfare and many forms of labor, gender roles are simply going to exist - that's just a fact of history. No society is going to have their military be half men and half women - hell, that doesn't exist today, when chemical reactions power weapons and vehicles, and it's even more absurd in a society which is, except for the addition of magic, modeled on that of Earth twelve hundred years ago or so. I've talked about this before, I think. I can accept that there would be women adventurers - adventurers are by definition outliers in society - but guards being women just as often as men? Not likely at all. When your life depends on the soldier to the left or right of you being able to swing a heavy sword and bear the weight of armor and maybe even carry you, wounded, off the battlefield, it isn't sixist at all if you aren't comfortable with the idea of that soldier next to you being a 110 pound woman.

The same thing applies to jobs like blacksmithing and other jobs involving heavy labor; women just aren't going to be particularly prominent in those jobs, and the gender roles come about because of physical differences between the genders - most particularly size and strength. If anything, history shows that societies tend to take gender roles further than logic demands, not less; they certainly don't bend over backward to ignore those differences in an effort to make sure women represent 50% of all jobs and roles.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:34 am

Really, then please explain some of the posts on I believe either page 4 or 5: "Unokitsune you have brought this on yourself for saying what you said about such a great man and his ever awesome song. Sons include women tooo it's about everybody you're just a betch, a heartless sixist betch"

Hence generally, not all

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:43 pm

How many norse gods are women? How many Joms Vikings were women? We all know the answer but a game company has to appease many. May political correctness waste away in Nivlheim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_ANbJTTInw&NR=1&feature=endscreen

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:36 am

Really, then please explain some of the posts on I believe either page 4 or 5: "Unokitsune you have brought this on yourself for saying what you said about such a great man and his ever awesome song. Sons include women tooo it's about everybody you're just a betch, a heartless sixist betch"

what jagartharn said

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:51 am

The game portrays an unrealistic absence of gender roles in a pre-industrial society, to be frank about it. In a world where physical strength is important in warfare and many forms of labor, gender roles are simply going to exist - that's just a fact of history. No society is going to have their military be half men and half women - hell, that doesn't exist today, when chemical reactions power weapons and vehicles, and it's even more absurd in a society which is, except for the addition of magic, modeled on that of Earth twelve hundred years ago or so. I've talked about this before, I think. I can accept that there would be women adventurers - adventurers are by definition outliers in society - but guards being women just as often as men? Not likely at all. When your life depends on the soldier to the left or right of you being able to swing a heavy sword and bear the weight of armor and maybe even carry you, wounded, off the battlefield, it isn't sixist at all if you aren't comfortable with the idea of that soldier next to you being a 110 pound woman.

The same thing applies to jobs like blacksmithing and other jobs involving heavy labor; women just aren't going to be particularly prominent in those jobs, and the gender roles come about because of physical differences between the genders - most particularly size and strength. If anything, history shows that societies tend to take gender roles further than logic demands, not less; they certainly don't bend over backward to ignore those differences in an effort to make sure women represent 50% of all jobs and roles.

You're a sad case if you don't realize that we do have real life female soldiers

Army
Marines
Air Force
Cops
Firefighters
Sailors
Captains
Crew Hand

Please pick one. However in the above know that female Firefighters are an extreem rarity when compared to the other jobs.

I can believe that there are almost as much women in guard position as men. However they are younger and don't generally serve in old age. I also like it that they tend to become Officers or of Officer rank considering the general steriotype is they can't do much and they svck so women will, everyday, prove their worth and then become better than the men save for the steriotype of a general being a man and the leader of a "grand rebbellian" is a man. However a male can prove himself once and he's golden.

I can believe there are female guards as this happens in real life especially in the western region.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:47 pm

You're a sad case if you don't realize that we do have real life female soldiers

Army
Marines
Air Force
Cops
Firefighters
Sailors
Captains
Crew Hand

Please pick one. However in the above know that female Firefighters are an extreem rarity when compared to the other jobs.

I can believe that there are almost as much women in guard position as men. However they are younger and don't generally serve outside of an officer's position in old age. I also like it that they tend to become Officers or of Officer rank considering the general steriotype is they can't do much and they svck so women will, everyday, prove their worth and then become better than the men save for the steriotype of a general being a man and the leader of a "grand rebbellian" is a man. However a male can prove himself once and he's golden.

I can believe there are female guards as this happens in real life especially in the western region.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:52 pm

You're a sad case if you don't realize that we do have real life female soldiers

Army
Marines
Air Force
Cops
Firefighters
Sailors
Captains
Crew Hand

Please pick one. However in the above know that female Firefighters are an extreem rarity when compared to the other jobs.

I can believe that there are almost as much women in guard position as men. However they are younger and don't generally serve in old age. I also like it that they tend to become Officers or of Officer rank considering the general steriotype is they can't do much and they svck so women will, everyday, prove their worth and then become better than the men save for the steriotype of a general being a man and the leader of a "grand rebbellian" is a man. However a male can prove himself once and he's golden.

I can believe there are female guards as this happens in real life especially in the western region.

Ok your just picking fights now I'm out!

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:39 am

You're a sad case if you don't realize that we do have real life female soldiers

Army
Marines
Air Force
Cops
Firefighters
Sailors
Captains
Crew Hand

Please pick one. However in the above know that female Firefighters are an extreem rarity when compared to the other jobs.

I can believe that there are almost as much women in guard position as men. However they are younger and don't generally serve in old age. I also like it that they tend to become Officers or of Officer rank considering the general steriotype is they can't do much and they svck so women will, everyday, prove their worth and then become better than the men save for the steriotype of a general being a man and the leader of a "grand rebbellian" is a man. However a male can prove himself once and he's golden.

I can believe there are female guards as this happens in real life especially in the western region.

Modern day era =/= Norse era (even though the same was pretty much true of Celts and to a lesser degree Danes.)

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:30 pm

The idea that Skyrim is inappropriately sixist in any way is laughable. It bends over backwards to insure that half of the soldiers, bandits and pretty much any other sort of combatants in the game world are women. Women are far better represented in these roles than they should be, because rationally, they are far less expendable than are men.

Skyrim isn't a modern society set in a safe technologically advanced world where gender distinctions are less meaningful with regard to men and women's roles in society. It is a primitive warrior culture that probably has a fairly low life expectancy. The dangers of Skyrim are legion, and the society wouldn't last long if it didn't protect it's ability to recover population losses.

Not all men have wombs. Only the womb men do.

Women, by virtue of the fact that they alone can have children, would logically be shielded. Lose half of your female population in a war and you cut the size of the next generation in half. But the population can quickly rebound if the female population is protected even in the face of a largely decimated male population because it simply doesn't take that many males to fulfill their role in replenishing the population.

I see no problem with the default presumption that most warriors will be male, and that most of the lore and songs will focus on the 'sons' of Skyrim.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:02 pm

Ok your just picking fights now I'm out!

And this is another display of immature idiocy.

The moment I throw a valid point to an argument you started you say "It's all your fault unokitsune you're the one picking a fight"

I gave you a good valid point and a very good reason to explain the vast amount of female guards to men.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:07 am

And this is another display of immature idiocy.

The moment I throw a valid point to an argument you started you say "It's all your fault unokitsune you're the one picking a fight"

I gave you a good valid point and a very good reason to explain the vast amount of female guards to men.

It isn't valid because
A: Modern day does not apply to Dark Ages (Skyrim is Dark Ages imo, and Oblivion/Morrowind was Roman Age)
B: Realworld does not apply to Fantasy computer games

However Norse mythology was deeply respectful of women.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:16 am

Modern day era =/= Norse era (even though the same was pretty much true of Celts and to a lesser degree Danes.)

Then please explain to me the Amazons or Amazonians and the equivelent in other cultures?
Explain to me why they included the forsworn which is a good example.

They revel women especially when one becomes a Hagraven. Hagraven's in turn make Briarhearts from deceased male corpses.

There did exist in those days women who were stronger than men and it has become the stuff of legend and lore.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:19 am

You're a sad case if you don't realize that we do have real life female soldiers

Army
Marines
Air Force
Cops
Firefighters
Sailors
Captains
Crew Hand

Please pick one. However in the above know that female Firefighters are an extreem rarity when compared to the other jobs.

I can believe that there are almost as much women in guard position as men. However they are younger and don't generally serve in old age. I also like it that they tend to become Officers or of Officer rank considering the general steriotype is they can't do much and they svck so women will, everyday, prove their worth and then become better than the men save for the steriotype of a general being a man and the leader of a "grand rebbellian" is a man. However a male can prove himself once and he's golden.

I can believe there are female guards as this happens in real life especially in the western region.

The game portrays an unrealistic absence of gender roles in a pre-industrial society.

Big qualifier to unwittingly glance over without reading. Not that there shouldn't be women in Skyrim's military, but you would think that there would be less.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:53 am

You're a sad case if you don't realize that we do have real life female soldiers

Army
Marines
Air Force
Cops
Firefighters
Sailors
Captains
Crew Hand

Please pick one. However in the above know that female Firefighters are an extreem rarity when compared to the other jobs.

I can believe that there are almost as much women in guard position as men. However they are younger and don't generally serve in old age. I also like it that they tend to become Officers or of Officer rank considering the general steriotype is they can't do much and they svck so women will, everyday, prove their worth and then become better than the men save for the steriotype of a general being a man and the leader of a "grand rebbellian" is a man. However a male can prove himself once and he's golden.

I can believe there are female guards as this happens in real life especially in the western region.

sigh

Who said that there aren't female soldiers, Marines, etc. in real life? I said that it's unrealistic for them to be as common as male soldiers.guards, because female soldiers aren't as common as male soldiers in the modern-era real world, where we have diesel-powered vehicles carrying soldiers around with their rifles powered by smokeless powder, all of which reduce (but not eliminate) the importance of physical strength - and it's even more unrealistic to portray female soldiers being as common as male soldiers in a pre-industrial society.

Women simply cannot do the same physical labor as men. I'm not talking about this particular woman compared to that particular man - I'm talking about comparing entire genders, and women as a whole simply cannot match the strength of men as a whole, and that's simply important when you're talking about picking up a heavy weapon and killing somebody else who's similarly armed and armored. Take 200 170 pound men and 200 110 pound women, give them all axes, shield and armor and train them equivalently. Then pair them up, one man against one woman - and start gambling. Only an idiot would start putting his money on the women.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:42 am

There did exist in those days women who were stronger than men and it has become the stuff of legend and lore.

Out of curiosity, will you link to me a few articles verifying that? I might have been asleep in that history class.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:24 am

The song represents the view point of a fictional fantasy race very loosely based and several traditional European cultures (who did hold such views), not modern western thought on equality.

PC is fine but lets not go nuts.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:30 pm

Out of curiosity, will you link to me a few articles verifying that? I might have been asleep in that history class.

Sure if I can find the good ones, There are so many I'm not sure where to begin. A big focus was those based in the Rain forests of the Amazon hence the name

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:52 am

Then please explain to me the Amazons or Amazonians and the equivelent in other cultures?
Explain to me why they included the forsworn which is a good example.

They revel women especially when one becomes a Hagraven. Hagraven's in turn make Briarhearts from deceased male corpses.

There did exist in those days women who were stronger than men and it has become the stuff of legend and lore.

Argh. AMAZONS DIDN'T EXIST. THEY WERE A MYTHOLOGICAL CREATION.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:34 pm

Out of curiosity, will you link to me a few articles verifying that? I might have been asleep in that history class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

Boudicea, the reallife Xena. Minus the lisbian sub-plots.

However, the fact that women who are stronger than men are so legendary is proof that it was abnormal, and worth noting as special.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:08 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

Boudicea, the reallife Xena. Minus the lisbian sub-plots.

However, the fact that women who are stronger than men are so legendary is proof that it was abnormal, and worth noting as special.

I was going for tribes or societies, but that's not a bad option.