Really should stop now I'm getting a headache. This whole thread has become a circle of the same arguments with no progress whatsoever. The reason I say your picking fights is because of comments like the above quote. I have honestly tried to be mature/sensitive and so on this entire thread and for all that effort I get called an immature idiot.

Bethesda has been more than generous by making women leaders, capable warriors, etc. Almost in an unrealistic fashion historically, but this is a fantasy game so it doesn't matter.

If my lore is correct, statistically all the Septims were dragonborn, and weren't all or most of them males? So wouldn't the song make more sense sung about a male?

There were a few ladies, like Potema and there was another one that did actually rule the empire (I think).

You know warlycam I am getting a headache too so I'm going to leave off with a few points

Fact: Alessia Septim was the first dragonborn, a blood-gift given by the divine Akatosh who created Alduin and other sub dragons
Fact: Kynnereth ((Known as the goddess of earth and nature but as the widow of shor)) Bestowed the gift of the Voice to mankind before Akatosh bestowed his gift onto Alessia Septim
Fact: Without These two women there would neither be a pantheon nor a way to defeat the dragons and yet the walls of history are quick to erase all traces of women from their records to be strictly about males.

I'm going to bed now, goodnight.

I'm sorry to say, there is no evidence those kinds of Amazonian style tribes exsisted.

But there are the Mosuo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosuo tribe,
further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matriarchy#History
There is no hard evidence forany notable or succesful matriachal societies before the 18th century.

Even a matriarchal society would still have its males do the fighting.

Boudica is probably not the best example considering she managed to get her 200,000 strong army slaughtered by a 10,000 strong roman one at the end of the day. IIRC there's also no proof she actually fought much or well, so much as served as an inspiration and leader for the rebellion.

I'm disappointed by the lack of female giants! That's some bad case of discrimination we have here

This, it is a biological fact that before weapons evened out the playing field the majority of women had less muscle and testosterone than the majority of men (of course, there are countless exceptions to the rule) so back when combat relied on brute force men did most of the frontline fighting, even Boudacea used a chariot and fear tactics to level the playing field.

Remember she was outgunned technology wise and the Celts didn't have many stratagists.


The females are indistinguishable from the men, you think Giants spring up from beneath (large) stones?

Did some one start this over that shake up at the good man project? Google Paul Elam its time to knock some of this misandry back into the dirt.

Its OK to be a man we are not some subset of a woman because we have a y chromosome aka SCUM Manifesto and the Rad Fem hub......

Feminists just bug me anymore. They are not about equality anymore they want to subjugate men.

There are female giants. We just call them mammoths.

I was talking more about sixism/racism towards the player. I give them credit for mentioning sixism and racism, but overall npc's treat your character as if it is a male Nord even if it is a female elf.

But as you said that isn't the point you are trying to make. So as I was saying, I don't think they should have to gender neutralize the lore and dragonborn song because usually warriors are men. They are in no way saying women can't be warriors, they are just referring to them as men because usually they are men.

Besides, I just don't see why it is a big deal that everything isn't gender neutral. Both genders are treated very equally and it would just be silly if they were treated exactly the same.

How do you know there's any gender differences in giants? It's totally reasonable, if not more reasonable than not, to have nearly identical males and females for a species. In fact, most animals are A LOT more identical in genders than humans.

Anyways, I know you were joking. My inner biology Nazi just had to goose-strut.

Wait a minute here...we still all know TES is fictional right? Dragging real world history, politics and cultural issues to make a comparison is actually a bit futile.
TES lore is so ridicously different from ours that most of our views hold no ground whatsoever. Skyrim is based on Norse mythology but it isn't Norse. It's based on some concepts and thrown into a blender with some rather unique high fantasy elements.
I'm also guilty of drawing comparisons at times because it's easy to explain in terms we all understand.

That said I think the games have always been very pc and both genders are represented equally. Yes there is racism between the races and yes I recall the Bard being sixist but there's an option to beat him down; whether your character is male or female.

It's telling that I've seen more TES female gamers and fans than any other game. Beth must be doing something right.

I see one of these kind of threads... equality only exists in conceptual form and never in something substantial. sixism is another concept held together within the eye of the beholder and always from the perception of the repressed. It can be said that many feminists are purely sixist to the core, but call them on it and expect a whole storm to fall on your head. problem with equality is that it can never be fully met there will always be something lacking that can never be fulfilled and thus the situation grows more escalated where the fight for equality is no a fight for "more". At this point there is no limit to the giving as the takers will just keep taking and keep asking for more. One thing I would suggest is also for people before quoting so called history of repression take a much more informed and thoughtful look into the past and truly see how silly their misconceptions and assumptions are wrong.

Technically, that just makes her a bad female leader. You don't see people making these sorts of excuses for men who manage to run their armies in to stabby death traps

True but these giants are anthropomorphic! So, unless female giants have beards and no giant boobs (me likes giant boobs ) we can conclude that all the female giants in Skyrim are secluded in caves while the males get all the fun.

I haven't read all the posts, so I'm sure this has been said.
These games do a brilliant job of representing female characters - they can be badasses, heroes, villains, leaders etc. Kind of like IRL. However, like IRL, language is gendered. I think "mankind" is an odd word, but I know that it isn't going to change any time soon, seeing as it's been used to describe all humans regardless of gender for a very long time, and these things don't just change overnight - much like the telling of tales in Skyrim.
At the end of the day, Skyrim is still quite patriarchal (I've had female NPCs say how hard it can be being a woman in Skyrim), so it makes sense that any great prophesies would be assumed to be talking about a man. The fact that you have this alongside great females in history/lore and still living within Skyrim is what makes it a more believable world imo. Much like with races I suppose - I just had a quick look and I don't think there are dragon words for "mer" or "elves". I doubt they expected the Dragonborn to be a Khajiit either!
Sorry to hear that you ended up having insults thrown at you though (welcome to the internet I suppose), you seem polite and although I disagree with your point, I can see your reasoning.

Oh, she was a bad leader and an even worse strategist.
She was however a great warrior (or a great actor, but then again the Romans track record with accurately recording the provinces makes it anyones guess how effective a soldier she was) and a good example of a woman with strong will, and probably great physical strength.

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Get over it.

Is this much ado about nothing still going on? Good grief. The dude can write whatever he wants in his own song. OP is not sixist, just a busybody.

No, they will accuse her of being nothing but the master's tool to break their fellow women. Would be hilarious if she was actually more educated and has a bigger paycheck than all of them.

Skyrim needs more kitchens.

It's the artist's song and (s)he wrote the lyrics the way (s)he envisions the whole theme. If you want a song to be gender neutral, make your own, simple as that. Actually, if you cannot connect it to the character you play as just because of man vs. woman, it's you who has issues. I have songs by female artists I like and have no problems with emotionally or whatever even thought they are women and I'm not and they clearly sing them from their "female point of view".

This.


If a game will let my female wood elf brawl in the streets of Markarth, then I believe Skyrim is approaching equality.

I also recall "Uncle Crassius" being sixist but there's the option to beat him down also - whether your character is male or female.