I hoped the wink would make it clear that I was being facetious.

But since you brought it up, and this is a min/ maxing thread, it's worth noting that 2hs are kinda terrible in Skyrim.

No, you might be part of a majority of players actually. But this thread is basically home of those who love to play by the numbers and optimize their char in every possible way. There is no right or wrong in playing Skyrim (or any other computer game for that matter) as long as you enjoy it. If you don't want to put up with all this: You don't have to - that's the good part.

I was hoping the nod and wink on my end would make it clear that I was returning the favor...of being facetious that is.

Yes, this is a min/max thread, and Jerich once asked this what's the reason to go with 2h besides being stubborn. I can offer the reasons of roleplay and asethetics. I followed the first thread from day one, though I didn't read every single post I'll like to think that I was paying attention. Destruction is also terrible in Skyrim, but I (and some others) still pass on the information on how to make it work so our fantasies of flinging fireballs at dragons in HD is realized on the big screen. The same logic applies to using 2h weapons, I've noted all the gameplay disadvantages versus DW in a previous post, so I'm definitely aware of the fact that 2hands lose out quite a bit to DW in DPS. However I still try to make it work, and I'm happy to report that thanks to the collective efforts of the contributors here and on Gamefaqs the barbarian from up north is more than a viable build, even if you as a player are just doing 80% min-maxing.

Random interesting fact.

Stamina Damage enchant and the duration of Fiery Soul Trap are affected by the Fire Enchanter perk.
Drain Stamina is unaffected

Fority restoration potions increase the value of all your fortify enchants/potions and using that potion can help crank up your smithing/alchemy/enchating by alot.

First round of testing; Standing Power attack on a giant with a variety of 21 damage Daedric Swords. No one handed perks, no magical perks, all the enchantment perks.

Giants health = Enchantment used (Damage done)

591 = base
549 = Daedric Sword (42)
549 = Absorb Magicka (42)
549 = Absorb Stamina (42)
549 = Magicka Damage (42)
549 = Stamina Damage (42)
541.96 = Fiery Soul Trap (49.04)
533.59 = Absorb Health (57.41)
524.88 = Shock Damage (66.12)
524.88 = Frost Damage (66.12)
523.45 = Fire Damage (67.55)

Note: Giants have 33% magic resist, no armor. Going to find an enemy with no magic resist before playing around with dual wielding and perks.

Edit: For the record, with two Daedric Maces smithed with Deadric Smithing, 4x 29% smithing enchants and a 130% smithing potion, 5/5 Armsman, 4x 47% one handed enchants, 77% one handed potion, 77% marksman potion and the orc Racial, you can get a shown damage of 7102.

I'm glad we've got a dedicated Two Hander to test some of this stuff. Are you able to confirm that weapon enchants proc on every enemy hit by Sweep? Any interest in double enchanting Absorb Stamina on a Two Hander to see how it effects your ability to chain power attacks? Is Great Critical Charge still broken? Has anyone been able to calculate how frequently a Two Hander staggers opponents? Has anyone worked out exactly how (in)effective blocking with a Two Hander is?

I wonder if there are any goof Two Handed Weapon mods on SkyrimNexus. In theory, it should be a good middle ground between the defense & interactivity of 1h + Shield and the offense of DW, but huge Stamina drain, very slow swing speeds, and poor Blocking have made it a clearly inferior choice thus far.

Good stuff, but not dispositive.

In order to settle the Elemental Damage v. Absorb Stamina debate, we'll have to look at damage over time. The Elemental Damage enchants clearly provide maximum damage output on a single swing; the question is whether one can produce superior damage over time by being able to repeatedly power attack with Absorb Stamina.

It's worth noting how competitive Absorb Health is with the Elemental Damage enchants, though. If one factors in the increased longevity from its heals, it's arguably a superior option.

Not sure I understand the query here. What is proc? Sweep isn't very effective, at least not on the PS3. Even as I try to hold on to the six-axis' left or right button it often registers as a standing power attack.


Is this possible? I was on patch 1.1 and last I tried it doesn't seem to allow replicate enchants on the same piece of gear?


I'm not sure what you mean by "broken". Without using potions, if it hits almost any foe without high HP will die in one hit on masters. Against a landed ancient/elder dragon it will take a huge chunk out of their life, against giants 2~3 criticals are enough to bring one down. However, as noted it swings slow and unless you've somehow cornered the more agile foes (bandits, Draugrs) in a chokepoint, most of the time Great Critical Charge misses. This is a huge setback for those who have spec their toon to increase HP only, or even in the ratio of 70 HP : 30 stamina. The moment your toon misses you've lost 60% of your stamina bar without doing any damage. Standard attacks actually work better in open area engagements.

This is one of the prime examples I was thinking of when I mentioned context. If standard attacks by a greataxe is more efficient in an open environment, then it makes sense to have more damage via elemental enchants. Standard attacks don't use stamina, swing faster and animation ends faster, resulting in more attempts at a moving target.


If weapon's power attack connects = instant stagger. But so does standing DW power attack. In both cases only if they miss then staggers by power attacks are off.


Heh, never tried this. DPS = faster I kill, higher scores I get on the report card.

Proc basically means to "trigger" or "fire" (sorry for using an obscure MMORPG term). What I'm asking is this: if you do a sideways power attack to hit multiple enemies, does your weapon enchant affect each enemy? More specifically, if you swing a Two Hander enchanted with Absorb Stamina (42) at three Draugr Lords, would it drain 42 Stamina from each and return 126 to you? As an aside, I wish Bethesda's "power attack" system wasn't so wonky. A Two Handed users ability to deal AoE melee damage is unique and potentially a great way to differentiate its playstyle from 1h + Shield and DW, but since it's attached to an awkward maneuvre, it seems like few people actually take advantage of it. Another candidate for modding.


If you disenchant a standard Absorb Stamina effect and the special Absorb Stamina effect from the Drainheart Sword, you can double enchant it.


Great Critical Charge was initially not working at all. It sounds like it's been patched.


So power attacks with a Two Hander always stagger? Do all One Handed power attacks do the same? If so, I assume the higher stagger rate for Two Handers comes on normal swings. Would love to know what that is.


Since blocking with a Two Hander svcks, you're probably doing it right. If it could be modded to svck less, it would both be worthwhile and make Two Handers more interactive than DW.

Hot damn! Thanks for the money code

Wanting to test max damage on normal mode to reduce variables, I smithed and buffed my Daedric Sword to 550, found a Mammoth, which I believe is the highest hp enemy on the overworld with no resists, walked over and power attacked it reducing it's health from 931 to -441 >.> Needless to say, I don't think experimenting works very well on normal difficulties.

Here's the numbers I got anyway;

931 = base
-442.76 = Daedric Sword
-443.65 = Fiery Soul Trap (before burn)
-458.60 = Fiery Soul Trap (After burn)
-449.02 = Shock Damage
-478.94 = Frost Damage
-499.97 = Fire Damage

Not sure why shock damage was so low, Mamoths only have 33% frost resist.

Ha!

You should be able to test this with mundane weapons. Find/ craft some weak weapons with approximately the same weight as their Daedric counterparts. Use Absorb Stamina enchants and see how long you can repeatedly perform standing power attacks. Use similarly weak and weighted weapons with an Elemental Damage enchants and repeatedly perform standing power attacks again. The Absorb Stamina enchants should grant you an extra X power attacks/ minute, while the Elemental Damage enchants will grant an extra X magic damage/ minute. Then we can plug in whatever your standing power attack damage is with your uber weapons and use that to calculate the damage difference.

Given the absurd damage you're putting out, I have little doubt that Absorb Stamina will win.

Here's my numbers with and without fighting stance for Stamina;

Without;

300 = Base
228 = Standing Power Attack
156 = Two Attacks
84 = Three Attacks
12 = Four Attacks
0 = Five Attacks

With;

300 = Base
246 = 1
192 = 2
138 = 3
84 = 4
30 = 5
0 = 6

So without a drain stamina enchantment I'm out of power attacks after 6 attacks. It looks like without any stamina regen you stay out of stamina for about 5 seconds before the regen kicks in if you hit 0, but you'll do the same amount of damage with 2 stamina as you do with 50. So as long as you have one Stamina Drain enchant, or a vegetable soup type item as was mentioned earlier;
then you can power attack for an infinite period of time. So I would say the max damage enchants would be

1 x Absorb Stamina
1 x Fiery Soul Trap
2 x Fire Damage

Replace with Absorb Health if needed and keep a backup frost/shock set for fire immune enemies.

Well that clears up our little dance here. ^ So to modify the tactic of maintaining a constant 1 stamina per second/attack to chain power attacks for 2h weapons, it is either drink vegetable soup (where can I find TONS of tomatoes?!!) and enchant 2 elements, or ditch the food approach and go with absorb stamina + 1 elemental attack. Keep a backup 2h weapon with different elemental attack properties when we 2handers encounter elemental immune enemies.

The vegetable soup method has one current drawback which I'm hoping some scout can help resolve. I have no idea where to find an absolute stock of tomatoes, though leeks, potatoes and cabbages are easily harvested. Naturally if tomatoes are random loot inside barrels and sacks, and a random spawn on food merchants' sell list, this is the limitation for vegetable soup.

The absorb stamina approach has a tiny detail worth noting: you can't miss, or you will absorb zero stamina. Which is easily fixed by normal swings.

Can you have maximum weapon damage with a Breton and capped Magic and Elemental Resist? I remade my character again and want to know if this is even possible.

Your elemental resistances will be at 43% if you want to cap MR and have one weapon skill fortified fully. That'll reduce a 1000 dmg breath to 85ish, which would be acceptable in my opinion

If you take perks in the Alteration tree, you can swap the Lord stone for the Atronach and get 80% absorb as well.

Just to add to this, you can also make Venison Stew and Beef Stew. Between the 3 possible recipes, you shouldn't have too much of a problem keeping in stamina at all times. The food approach works well. I was going to comment on testing today and seeing no damage increase while using Absorb Stamina, but not surprisingly you guys are awesome and posted the hard numbers. Absorb Stamina is a waste of an enchant in my opinion, but I happily steal every meat I run across and always grab vegetables from barrels so your play style might be different.

On a side note, take a look at the Elsweyr Fondue as well - it adds 100 mana (10 levels worth of points). Excellent for any build that uses casting, but the ingredients are a bit more annoying than the stews.

Does fortifying one handed weapon skill affect shield bash? Or is that block skill.

Shield Bash is affected by your Block skill and the perks Power Bash and Deadly Bash

Is there any way to increase amount of magic damage done? I know there's a way to make spells cost less, but what about more damage?

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1275179-2419-armor-6399-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-33-perks-329k-backstabs/page__st__140__p__19333960#entry19333960


Thanks again for the headsup. I'll definitely be using food much more regularly after reading this.

@Domilasa You wrote


At a certain point the numbers go into the negatives, is it still working as a positive increase? Or is this some glitch.

The answer you guys missing is the 2H perk Sweep. Once you stop fighting people one on one, 2H damage per swing goes through the roof due to it being an AoE.

Great great testing guys! I took today off work so I can consolidate this thread's info.

Regarding the WoW comparison... Some of us just like playing with numbers. We're not missing anything; we're just find our fun where and how we like it.

You're on PC. Try doing a Sweep on the PS3. As I've mentioned, it doesn't work flawlessly. I've tried tapping + power attack = standard PA. Holding left or right on the d-pad + PA = standard PA. Only Great Critical Charge and backwards directional PAs work 100% of the time. Sideways PA register only 25% of the time, and in a room full of foes my first reaction is to knock them out 1 by 1 using standard attacks since Sweep isn't reliable.

Technical fault, if it works as intended Sweep is an awesome tool for 2handers.