Hey, I was talking Dev intent. How dare you get all practical on me! /sarcasm

Your point is taken, but I still stand by Sweep a little bit. Unfortunately, PA can be executed with 1 Stam, and we're doing SO much damage with 1H... The truly practical answer is Sword and Board.

But people keep missing the point of this thread. Yes, we're min/maxing, and posting exploits, glitches, synergies, and excessive optimizations. The point of these threads is choice. by knowing the outer boundaries, you can choose how to play based on what is fun. Is 2H viable? Damn straight. If I can beat the game using Unarmed, any other weapon choice is viable. And that's why this thread and the game are beautiful.

Awesome information, appreciated! I did not even know you can perform a power attack when having ANY amount of stamina regardless of the attack costs. I would keep in mind though that a shield bash does not drain stamina and running drains you out of stamina rather quickly if you just have 2, 5 or 20 left. Since most if not all melee strategies require getting to your opponent as quickly as possible you might consider going for more absorb.

On the other hand: I did not play a lot of melee though, since it's rather annoying in first person view wielding a shield - especially on the 360.

Actually I have always maintained absorb stamina to be the strongest weapon enchant.

Personally I use dual wield with health absorb + firey soul trap and health absorb + stamina absorb. This set gives me the ability to fight 30 Draugr Deathlords at Master level without a single potion/food/heal (including one-handed potions). Just need some space and soul gems.

Konahrik and Avoid Death is quite helpful as well when I added 10 Dragon Priest into the mixture.

In an experiment in ridiculousness. I was testing the resto loop limits. After the third or so potion, it started going into negative numbers, and all improvements dropped to about 1%.

Then I used the maximum allowed enchanting skill I could get to make smithing gear. Then used a smithing potion from the loop. It told me I didnt have enough skill to improve my equipment.

Case in point? There's a limit on skills. I dont know the number, but once it passes that number, things go negative, and its equivalent to having 0.

Edit: Haha, my Daedric Armor stats
Armor 32252688
Weight: 50
Value: 2147483647

So given this information.

That means for the absorb stamina enchant, a magnitude of 1 or 2 is all one really need no? There wouldn't be a difference between absorb 20 stamina compared with absorb 1 stamina in terms of allowing you to power attack continuously. And absorb 1 stamina enchant lasts a lot longer before you have to recharge.

but but...continious shouts would be awesome

If you don't care about enemies power attacking you, then yes

Here's a cause I can get behind. Everyone has individual preferences. Some like steel, others prefer plate, and while I love deadric (yes, yes alien from another world ) I wanted to try something new. Fur caught my attention and I think I managed to hit 75% physical cap reduction with 5/5 Agile Defender + smithing potion + smithing gear + 1 fortify light armour skill. My dark elf's using fur armor + scaled gloves + scaled boots. That lonely Dunmer from Morrowind is fitting right into Skyrim neatly.

On another note, the destruction perks do contribute well to weapon elemental damage. Are the numbers off? Because with standard fire/frost/shock enchantment on weapons and with Fire/Frost/Storm enchanter taken, we get 31 points per enchantment (*2 with Extra Effect, *4 with DW + Extra Effect). Throw another fortify enchantment potion into the mix and we have 36 points per elemental enchant. Stack that with Augmented Fire/Frost/Shock perks maxed and we get 81 - Feel free to multiple that by 4 if using DW + Extra Effect.

There IS the problem of the 9 perks investment to hit those numbers... (2 more in enchantment tree to reach Extra Effect, 7 in destruction).

All these are on paper though, haven't done the practical tests to see if those numbers are misleading, real or if there's some cap in place. For instance, I'm a little concerned about only 1/2 of the 81 point elemental attacks being registered...


Hush, shhh! Don't tell anyone my toon has yet to unlock shouts. He isn't free to manage dragons due to a critical negative reading he had from the stars. Divines have made it such that resistances aren't working this week, so he's not prepared to confront giant fire breathing lizards yet...

A good third alternative is left hand grand healing (with 0 magicka cost) right hand sword. Honestly, with armor cap, 80% spell absorb and 85% magicka resist, shield doesn't really give me anything.

The ability to spam 300 health/stamina restore on the other hand.. Potion can do the same thing but potion cost money and you have to keep track of them.

The only downside IMO is
1. Dual wield just looks so damn cool from third person
2. Dashing with spell on one hand and sword on other looks [censored].

Have there been any testing on possible armor bypass from massive creatues (dragons, giants etc), or if the armor cap always holds true?

Great catch. Has anyone tested if an Absorb Stamina enchant of magnitude 1 allows for unlimited power attacking? If so, that would be a good option for anyone who doesn't want to mess with Stew.



How effective is Absord Stamina at reducing enemy power attacks? Assuming enemy Stamina works just like it does for players, it would be difficult to prevent enemy power attacks altogether; if you use a large-magnitude Absorb Stamina enchant, it would probably mitigate a few power attacks by quickly reducing enemy Stamina to 0, but the effectiveness of that strategy is indirectly proportional to your overall armor mitigation. If you're armor capped, the extra mitigation is probably minimal.


IIRC, Chesyr recently posted that for no non-unique enemy in Skyrim has armor penetration. It's probably safe to assume none of the uniques have it either.

If you're referring the my numbers, I had fire/frost/storm enchanter when I made my weapons, they read 36 extra damage.

My http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1300996-armor-cap-ridiculous-damage-enchanting-alchemy-smithing-only-21-perks-thread-5/page__view__findpost__p__19684263 was without the perks and Fire Damage added about 40 damage.

My http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1300996-armor-cap-ridiculous-damage-enchanting-alchemy-smithing-only-21-perks-thread-5/page__view__findpost__p__19685857 had the destruction perks and Fire Damage added about 60 damage. My shock damage was a bit off when I did that test for some reason but further tests have shown it to be working normally.

Just tested it and it looks like it's working fine with magnitude of 1. Just make sure you don't miss.

Honestly? I would say useless. They generally don't spam power attacks enough to drain their mana so taking 29 out of a pool of a couple hundred isn't going to dent them much. If you're hitting them long enough that they run out of stamina you're probably dead


For pure damage output with utility, with max resists I would go dual wielding with 2x fire damage, fiery soul trap, absorb health and some of the stamina regen food to chain power attacks. I never go sword and board if I'm going all out on resists, mitigating an extra 12% (20*.6) isn't worth the loss of half my damage and enchants imo.

What I mean is...the numbers and multipliers don't add up.

My numbers go in this manner: base 31 with Fire/Frost/Storm Enchanter, add 130% from fortify enchanting potion we should get 40.3, and I see 40 here. All's good. Add another 50% damage from Augmented Fire/Frost/Shock, I should be seeing 60, but 81 is the figure I get instead.

Even if I do the maths from another sequence:

i.) base 31 Fire/Frost/Shock Enchanter
ii.) + 50% (or *1.5) from Augmented Fire/Frost/Shock = 46.5, but I'm seeing 56 on the screen
iii.) 56 +130% from fortify enchantment potion, I should be seeing 73, but it shows up as 81.

That's what confused me. I'm not complaining about the higher numbers in my game (Why would I? I'm already gimped from fur, scale armours and no helm ), but definitely there is one other modifier that I'm not factoring in. Destruction skill level (69 during enchant)? My base figures are wrong?

And the point of this thread is....................

Here's the numbers I'm getting;

10 = Base
12 = 100 Enchanting
25 = 5/5 Enchanter (+100% of 12.5)
31 = Fiery Enchanter (+25% 25)
46 = Augmented Flames (+50% 31)
54 = Potion (+32% of 25)

The perks multiply together but work seperately from the potion, so work out how much the perks give and and how much the potion gives then add them together. I believe you should be getting 78.5, but the extra two points could be from unseen decimal places. Destruction skill has no effect on the number.

Edit: Also just wanted to point out your math flaw. 56 + 130% = 128


If you don't approve, feel free to click the back button and leave.

"It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

And the point of your post is....................?

You'll notice we've specified the point of this thread multiple times, even in the OP. Guess you didn't make it that far. Fail troll is fail.

@Useful People

I've spent the last couple hours digging through the last 5 threads and summarizing. Still in process, but Thread 6 will go up tonight, with all the summarized data.

Only 8 posts to go. Run for the hills!

i ve found a way to get rid of effects like ancient knowlegde for those who want it. it requires a bit of work but atleast its possible with the use of the console

all you need to do first : unequip ANYTHING you wear.

reset your perks via console. its better to do this before since what you are gonna do will reset thier effects completly even if they stay active. DO NOT REASIGN perks for now.

now open the console and target your character. type "resurrect" note that it wont work because you are not dead. BUT it will remove all CURRENTLY active effects from your character. this includes all active magic effects and all perk effects.

no you can reasign your perks. they will work like normally.
you habe to give yourself back any passive racial bonuses that you had before via console. just use player.addspell to gain your racial powers back. this also works for ancient knowlegde and mara powers. if you readd them they will work like normally. also you have to reasign the brithsign you were using by activation any stone except the one you used and the simply go and switch the new stone with the old one.

quit a bit of work but this will remove active effects like ancient knowlegde completly. to readd it just use the player.addspell command with ancient knowlegdes id.

this is just to show that you CAN get rid of effects you already gaining by just using the console.

You can do that to remove the perk but then it's gone forever. Ancient Knowledge doesn't work even if you add it with the console. Gives you the active effect but your smithing and armor aren't boosted because you don't get the secondary spell effect from it.

I wonder if the perk itself is working as intended if you add it manually, but the quest, for whatever reason, is bugged and grabs the wrong effect... and the next effect just happens to be a smithing effectiveness boost? Like, they grabbed the PerkID from the PerkList, but their array was off by 1, so they add a different perk? Just a thought. This might actually FIX the bugged Perk. What does your Dwarven Armor Rating look like before and after this process? Likewise the results of Smithing Improvements before and after?

Does anyone know if the Atronach perk in the Alteration tree works the same as normal spell absorption? Is it 30% chance to absorb each spell effect cast at you or does it only absorb the mana used to cast the spell but the spell still does damage to you? The wording is a little vague.

There's two Magic Effects called Ancient Knowledge and one spell. Adding the spell via the console only gives you one of the effects (Which does nothing), the quest gives you the spell and both effects. Other than completing the quest there is no (known) way to add the working effect to the player.

Magic Absorption is all or nothing. The Atronach perk in Alteration, for instance, grants you a 30% chance to completely avoid damage from a spell and regain the damage amount as mana; but you'll still have a 70% chance of taking full damage and regaining no mana. Thus, Magic Absorption isn't an acceptable substitute for Magic Resistance unless you're prepared to get randomly one-shot by powerful Mages.

Another drawback to Magic Absorption is that it can cause self-targeted spells to fail. For instance, if you take the Atronach perk and activate the Atronach standing stone, you're Conjuration summons will have an 80% chance of being "absorbed" for no effect.

It's worth noting, however, that Magic Absorption has the same chance to absorb the effect of Dragon Shouts, weapon enchants, poisons, etc. It's unique in that respect.

Thanks. I wonder if the conjuration thing is a bug or if it's planned that way. I hope they fix it.

Interesting. I wonder what triggers it? I had trouble using player.additem for Nightingale equipment for testing. I'd type it in, and it would say it was added, but there would be nothing in my inventory. Once i'd completely the appropriate questline, the player.additem command worked no problem. Sounds like there's a conditional when certain things are applied that may or may not be being set when we use the console to do it directly.

edit: Still working on the next thread. i'll link it here as soon as I can.