Maybe a perk tree that isn't based on leveling up?
Like it goes in with your normal perks, but instead of a perk point for leveling up you get one for every 10 kills/feedings as werewolf/vampire and the number needed increases for every perk up the tree.

This would only affect you while transformed, and would not use the same perk points as leveling, thus conserving balance and giving a stronger purpose to feeding.

They won't waste an add-on on werewolves, will they?

To the op: as far as I remember, werewolves get strength and levels by killing and feeding.

Someone told you wrong, werewolves get no benefits from killing. The only way to "level up" your werewolf is to do a quest to get extra transforms or a weak wolf summon...

Being a werewolf is good up until level 30. After that an archer can basically kill you with one shot.

While werewolves got the short end of the stick, I'm glad Bethesda included them in Skyrim from the start, they still are better and got a better questlines than what Bloodmoon gave them. Bloodmoon was so lame in comparison. And the killcams/animations for werewolves in this are so awesome!!!!!!

Of course there are things that can be improved upon (there should have been first person mode too, not just 3rd person) , but SKYRIM is still the biggest promotion werewolves ever got in TES.

And there are this kind of quests in the game? Anyway, being a werewolf is useless; you can do nothing but kill and feed. What kind of game is that?

That's it. Destruction has similar issues, though at least your beast-form attack strength does go up with your level. I agree that turning into a werewolf should improve your fighting and survival abilities, not reduce them. Else, why bother using the beast form?

Kind of what I'm thinking.. are you telling me after one year as a vampire I wouldn't learn the tricks of the trade? Or being a werewolf for so long wouldn't start to feel like I'm my own body, have it all be natural?

That is exactly the point we are trying to get across! Werewolves are useless.

People who play as werewolves want them to actually be useful and interesting.

No that is not a better way to RP, that is a function that damages gameplay and can be "Pretended" for RP instead of ruining Lycans even more for those who are fine with the current beast form system

Useful how? By working on a farm? Joining a faction in the war? Helping people? Dragonborning as a werewolf? Werewolves are useless by essence; they are beasts, all what they know is killing and feeding.

I am fine with the voluntary transformations, but who even transforms after they get to high levels?

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You do realise there are actually people here who roleplay farmers right?

Roleplaying a werewolf character means having a hidden power you can unleash in the middle of an unexpectedly difficult fight in order to survive.
They are useful to roleplayers who want to sneak out into the darkness and prey upon the unwary.

My character is a nord hero who hides his powerful secret unless it must be used, but what happens when I transform to fight my enemies? One goes "lolnope" and puts an arrow between my eyes.

And being "useless by essance" because all they do is kill?
All swords do is kill, are they absolutely useless?

Werewolves are useful. Well at least the Circle types are. There can be courageous werewolves, greedy werewolves, etc.

Especially considering Tamriel werewolves are not always werewolf, the person part of them can have all sorts of ambitions and uses with werewolf being their ability to make things happen.

The greater potential of werewolves cannot be expressed in the gameplay because first of all, there's no option in Skyrim to actually turn people into werewolves, so unlike things like armies that enlist people to expand their control and influence, werewolves just have the beast part going for them in the gameplay since they are alone, no real unity, so how can werewolves expand their influence like vampires and other beings/factions do when they can't increase their numbers?

Yea werewolves can't live with society, but if they could use their natural lycan nature of turning people into werewolves, then it would be possible for werewolves to develop their own territories and domain, just like The Circle have developed their own home among The Companions (even though theirs is a secret).

There could be a werewolf civilization if the gameplay allowed it and the lore went in that direction for that region.

There's a lot of untapped potential for werewolves in TES. They are part beast, part person.

So it's kind of unfair to just classify them the same way you would classify normal wolves, bears and other creatures, because they are above that.

By my definition a Wearwolf IS supposed to tank things, its a secret weapon to use when things get tough. Can't beat that boss? Then go beast form and rip him to shreds. When you use it you shouldn't be weaker than when you are in human form. Plus I seem to remember a companion member tanking some silver hand pretty good.

Keep in mind that this is my own OPINION of a Wearwolf.

Let's think about this for a moment though- a werewolf is a man-wolf. Wolves aren't solitary hunters- they rely on group strategy to take down prey. Why would a single werewolf be any different? We all assume that being a werewolf should be this crazy, strong creature, but what if it's not intended to be that way? What if it's just a different style of play for select situations, much like how a real wolf would have to selectively attack solo?

well werewolves can't attack in packs if the gameplay is designed to

1. not allow turning non-quest NPCs into werewolves.

2. no companions that turn into werewolves in battle (even The Companions were basically just regular companions outside scripted events).

Werewolves as they are in Skyrim are too nerfed to really bring out the full nature, not just in the stats/skills category.

but oh yea we can turn corpses into living servants, but not into werewolves. It shouldn't require drinking werewolf blood or communicating with the Daedra of the hunt or some ring as the only ways to become a werewolf.

Well real-time werewolfizing someone would be someone akin to polymorphing somewhat, but I think it could happen, even if they add some outlandish special effect to hide the model swap of people you werewolfized. maybe they could invent a new werewolf skill that can turn non-quest npcs into werewolves too. Then the species would begin to be more authentic.

the other thing like I said is the lack of being able to feed off of killed animals, not just people. It's just another example how nerfed werewolves are. So unlike races with their complete personal skills and perks, werewolves capabilities are only one foot through the door.


I also think housing could be reworked, you shouldn't need to officially buy a house to own it. If you need to kill the owner of a bed to use it, then fine but beds and such shouldn't have like some force field that prevents anyone from using the bed, especially if said owner kicked the can, you know?

I think the people who feel that werewolves are "weak" or not "strong enough" are confused as to the purpose of Werewolves.
It is not a simple matter of one form being stronger than another, but a significant difference in play style.

For those who do not understand this concept, take this idea into consideration.

If you desire to "tank", then you would pick a Nord or Orc with preferably a warrior's build in mind.

If you desire to throw tremendously strong spells at people, while staying out of harm's way, you would pick an Altmer or Breton, with a mage's build in mind.

If you desire to be sneaky and kill your enemies one at a time, you would pick a Wood Elf or Khajiit, with an assassin's build in mind.

If you desire anything in between, you could pick a Dark Elf, Imperial, Redguard, Argonian, etc.

Or mix and match to your heart's content.

People are complaining that Werewolves cannot "tank" or "wtfpwn" a group of 7 guys solo, they need to understand that that is not the desired play style of a werewolf.
A werewolf excels at speed, dealing huge amounts of damage (ie. a power attack that throws opponents off their feet) and special powers that are in some instances extremely strong(ie. a 0% cooldown fear)
To be successful with the Werewolf, one must embrace this different playstyle, not immediately assume that you will be made stronger,"just because".

Same goes for Vampires, people complain that they are useless, yet they do not understand that it is a difference in game play, not in mere terms of how much hp and armor you have. A vampire excels at using stealth and manipulation (Illusion skill tree)
to destroy his/her enemies.

The reason this thread exists is because someone was playing a Warrior class, then became a werewolf assuming they would become godly strong and then became upset when they could not utilize the change in play style.

Complaining that you die too quickly as a Werewolf is no different than complaining that you die too quickly as a mage, or an assassin, or a farmer, or a mudcrab.
It is a different playstyle.

Adapt or stick to something you know you can do successfully.

they really could buff werewolf damage output.

I think giving them at least some armor rating would go a long way.

I'd also like to see them include the ability to sneak as a werewolf. Feels like something a good predator and hunter would do.

Probably not a whole DLC but they'll probably be updated.

This and some kind basic armor/protection..we all know they are pretty much useless above level 25

Perk tree confirmed, I was right lol. Case closed, No need for thread.

werewolf's should have there own stages like a vampire does.

Indeed, arguement over. Werewolves ftw!

there is a tree for werewolves and vampirescoming up in the new dlc, check this thread.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1378450-dawnguard-gameinformer-details-3/