Sure, he says "Any last requests before you go... wherever it is you people go when you die." Classy.

Tullius' request to Ulfric was to let him surrender and presumably go back to Cyrodiil. That wasn't happening. I don't begrudge either man a bit of glorying in the moment, but in Ulfric's case his gloating over Tullius wasn't public and he didn't go out and brag to the crowd about Tullius' body parts. He also begs Rikke to stand down, and would probably have let her go in exile if she'd been willing.

You guys are really smart.

Due to the fact that he is in Skyrim for one thing, Duty. Unlike Ulfric the civil war is not personal, he's only there because he is following orders. another trait I admire about Tullius is how loyal to the empire Tullius is, and to Tullius credit after finding out he cannot surrender he just say's "So be it" accepting his fate. A trait that Ulfric also has, his loyalty to skyrim, which I admire as well, "Skyrim doesn't belong to you Ulfric" , "But I belong to her."

Oh he's a good general, no doubt about that. I actually wouldn't mind if Cyrodiil goes into martial law after the events of Skyrim and Tullius (if he's alive) or someone like him ends up taking the reins. Then you might actually see the empire fight instead of tucking tail.

We shall crush our Thalmor opressors!
I joined the Stormcloaks.

Bosmer, and all elves, aren't exactly welcome in Skyrim. Nords have a, somewhat justified, distrust of mer. And elves would likely see Windhelm as a microchosm of Ulfric's rule if he was in charge of skyrim. Note that I'm not saying this assumption is RIGHT, I'm just saying what the average person in this scenario would be thinking. You know that nords often dislike elves, you know how nords are allowed to treat minorities in Windhelm. If you were an elf, and really try to put yourselves in their shoes for a moment, who would you side with? A rebellion that is focused on the rights of a totally different species at the POSSIBLE expense of your own? Or would you side with the overarching political body that officially incorporates your people? Once again, this isn't an argument over which side is better, but what I think the typical elven response would be. This is also seen in the fact that more elves support the empire than the stormcloaks. Far more. The elves feel they have more of a stake in the empire than with Ulfric.

We also see the result of the stormcloak rule after the CW is over. Lots of good things and bad things happen if either side takes over, but a lot of the bad things for the stormcloak rule is focused on the minorities. I remember one non-nord alchemist say the storcloaks were trying to drive her out of town because they assumed she was poisoning people. There are no plans to allow the argonians into windhelm as far as I know, and the dark elves remain exploited and being pegged as "squatters" (ironic, since every one of them has a job unlike many of the nords in windhelm). I can't remember, but I THINK Whiterun remains jacked up as well, not sure though so dont quote me. So, while a stormcloak rule has its benefits, it's seems pretty clear that it's not a desireable outcome for the non-nords, particularly elves, of skyrim.

Long story short: Imperials for bosmer.

Altmer do just fine in Windhelm, and the Bosmer are doing pretty well in Riften which is also a Stormcloak hold. One of the richest Nords there is married to a Bosmer and his Argonian employee says that he pays them well.

I suppose you could go either/or. However, as a Stormcloak, I'll tell you why a Bosmer should join them. Bosmer are very familiar with oppression, which is what the Empire and Aldmeri Dominion are doing to Skyrim (the banning of Talos, justiciars kidnapping Nords without justifiable reason, etc.) Naturally, a Bosmer would hate the Aldmeri Dominion because of the purges carried out in Valenwood, supporting the Stormcloaks leads to one nation becoming hostile against them.

He's not even being accused of being a Talos worshipper. His family support the Stormcloaks and they suspect that he is a Stormcloak themself. I wouldn't call that sufficient evidence to abduct someone.

The argonians still aren't allowed in the city. I agree that not everyone has it bad under Stormcloak rule, but like I said: elves dont really have a stake in Ulfric's rebellion. Many of the stormcloaks and nords treat elves poorly and many of them distrust them or are rude to them. Ulfric's side is, for better or worse, for the nords first. Imagine if you lived in a country ruled by an empire. That country has a history steeped in hatred and war with your people. You know that not all natives to this country are racist, but many are, and that the empire ensures this racism doesn't go TOO far. You see that some of the natives, under the rule of one of the native leaders, is starting a rebellion. Sure he has a pretty good reason but the issues they're facing dont really affect you. Now imagine visiting this city and seeing that one race, related to your own, is treated as second class citizens and forced to live in one slum that they even named a racial slur (gray-skin and gray-quarter is an insult to dunmer). Imagine that race are called bums and squatters even though more of them have jobs and contribute more to the economy than the native races do (many nords in windhelm dont have jobs while the dunmer do). Now imagine seeing another race that cant even live in the city and yet they play a vital, albeit menial, role in the everyday business of the town. Now imagine that if this rebellion is won, that this leader and his supporters will be in control throughout the country. Now, forced to pick a side, who would you honestly choose if you were actually in this situation? Some may still say stormcloaks and thats ok, but I think most would side with the other guys if they had to pick a side.

Yeah, that was the second time I was dissapointed with the game. The first time was.....well read my signature and click the first link. Anyway, I hate that this entire playstyle was butchered. I know that's harsh but it's true. It's nearly impossible to play as that nimble, agile stealth character we've come to love. It's just.....gone.

Theres no evidence stating he supports Ulfric's "cause" though, not all nords within stormcloak territory support the Stormcloaks.

That's not even the point we are discussing. Someone was talking about Bosmer being badly treated in Skyrim.

The difference between imperial and Stormcloak Nords is negligible on this point. Solitude and Windhelm are run pretty much on the same principles except for the fact that Windhelm took in Dunmer refugees and Solitude didn't.

My point is that you see other elves who own property and even employ Nords. Certainly you can choose to see only one side, but there's no reason you have to... even though people playing the game do only seem to see that one opening cutscene in Windhelm and pay attention to nothing else.

I was just asking you to try to step into the shoes of someone experiencing the entirety of what I wrote in that post. I think, if you look at it altogether, and try to imagine yourself in that situation, you'll find that many bosmer would side with the empire if they had to choose.

Racial tensions depend on where you go for instance Windhelm tends to seem like the only city where outsiders are greatly unwelcome and places like whiterun are very open minded since they see foreigners very often since its a trading hub, same can be said in many places throughout tamriel.


I think its because most Dunmers wanted to be close to their old home in case news of it restoring to its old glory come and they can one day finally go home, which might be soon since apparently Mournhold aka Almalexia is thought to have been completely rebuilt, which isn't really surprising.

In the legion they will threat you as badly and call you scum etc. And it has nothing to do with your race. It seems that because you was arrested in Helgen they think you are a filthy scum.

Thats...no where near truth O.o they never call the PC scum or treat them badly, I've played dark elves that joined the legion.

^this
I've never encountered that. All I really hear is, "Legate," "Damn Stormcloak rebels," and, "It's been so long since I've killed a Stormcloak my sword arms getting flabby."

I played with Imperial and joined the legion and with that character have never committed any crime. The most common thing Tullius always says to me when I see him is "Get away from me, scum!" That's so even I helped him to win the civil war.

Umm...what? I played the game many times and have never encountered that, Tulius always seems to be normal for me and not aggressive one bit O.o nor have I heard about this from anyone else.

He acts just like he hates me. He is disrespecting me and treating me as a dirt. After that I haven't bothered being on the Imperial side.

He never openly shows any hate towards the PC even if they chose stormcloak, he does sound uninterested in the PC before you join the legion and will commonly question your skills but he never shows any signs of aggression or hate towards them. I've played the imperials numerous times and he has never called any of my characters "scum" or treated them poorly.

So he has never yelled to you "GET AWAY FROM ME?" Not even after the battle of Windhelm? That's weird. For me that is the only thing he says to me now when the questline is over.

I would join legion since i see stormcloak as very Skyrim centric makes more sense as a Nord character.